Lessons from Age Group Ironman Athletes

Jill Bartholomew (00:00)
This is Jill Bartholomew, host of the Be Fierce Multisport podcast and welcome to episode five. Today we're going to be talking to four age groupers who volunteered to appear on our show today. The topic we're going to be talking about is, on your first Ironman, what was your learnings? Like, what did you take away? What did you learn that you didn't expect? And we have quite a range.

of experiences here from a 70.3 training for their first Ironman all the way up to having done many Ironman over many decades. So a lot of range of experience today. I'm super excited about this conversation. Just quick introduction. We have Kamil from the Czech Republic. Jen.

Justin, both from Orlando, who met on this podcast. We've already made some connections. And Wendy, Wendy, I don't recall where you're joining us from. Marietta, Georgia. you know, Orlando, Georgia, Philadelphia, and the Czech Republic, represented. So I'm super excited. So we've all done at least the 70.3. Most of us have done at least

Jenn (00:55)
Thank

Wendy (01:01)
Marietta, Georgia.

Jill Bartholomew (01:17)
one full Ironman. I know when I did my first one there was so many things I didn't expect to happen on the course right? I had trained for like nine months a year. I'd done at that point, you know, probably four or five halves. God knows how many tries and you know, my triathlon career started as a marathoner. I'm like the classic

triathlete, I was a marathoner who broke her leg and became a triathlete. know, it's like half the triathletes were injured runners, right? for me personally, you know, when I did my first full, um, you know, I in Lake Placid, which, you know, it was really close to where I grew up. I'm from Saratoga, New York. So doing Lake Placid was like going home. You know, I grew up like speed skating on the oval.

Jenn (01:51)
Thanks

Jill Bartholomew (02:05)
So like, you know, that was like coming down that first finish line was so emotional. Um, but for me, it was the run. was that, you know, I transitioned my first mile off the bike was at like five 50 or something stupid like that. And then by the time I made it to like mile 16, the mortal hydration was taking its toll on me. Um, you know, and you dealt with that for the last like 10 miles or so. And then my watch died at mile 20.

And I'm the one who's sitting there running by people like, Hey, what's your pace? Cause I don't know what mine is. So that was fascinating, but I'm interested. so Wendy, you've been doing this longer than the rest of us. You're just telling us before we started recording about your first one in Kona, uh, before it was Kona as we know it today. Uh, you want to tell us about, about that and you know how it went.

Wendy (03:02)
So yeah, thank you for having me on. loved talking about Ironman, especially my first one, because it was back in 1997 and I was 24 years old. And I'll back up. I actually qualified in 1995 at a race called Springfield, Illinois. And I declined. I didn't even know what Kona was. I just did this race. It was almost a half Ironman distance. I grew up in Michigan and I said, no, I don't even know what that is. And then I made it a goal of saying, okay, I want to

qualify while I'm still in this 18 to 24 age group. So then I moved to Colorado, went to a race. It was called the Desert Sun Half Ironman. There wasn't a 70.3 yet. And I qualified and it was like 90 degrees. I had half a water bottle. I cramped at mile 12 of the half marathon and I crossed the finish line saying, no way am I ever gonna double this distance. Because I didn't know anything about fueling. But of course I got a slot and I went.

Jill Bartholomew (03:56)
Mm.

Wendy (04:00)
And I recall the race was about 12 weeks after I qualified in Kona. so it was very close. Yeah. So I went alone like nine days before the race. I was there alone. My dad flew out the day before I had no concept of nutrition yet. And I ran into my friend that I used to race in Michigan. So I started.

Jill Bartholomew (04:05)
That's very close.

Wendy (04:25)
triathlon in 1992. I ran into a girlfriend of mine who I used to race from in Michigan. And I said, what do you do eating and drinking? And she told me, so I followed what I followed her guidelines, you know, like three days before the race, I had my first goo at mile two of my very first marathon. And from it worked like everything, you know, my nutrition, was so at least I knew enough that I needed to eat and drink. And back then I used to probably have

100 grams of carbohydrate at least an hour. I kind of overdid it because that's what I was worried about. And it worked for me. I I got lucky that, you don't try anything new race day. And I tried a lot of new things race day.

Jill Bartholomew (05:05)
I was

going say, know, trying a goo on race day for the first time is very, very bold.

Wendy (05:12)
Well, you know, who knew? mean, in the 90s, there was really no, I didn't find much education, much, no coaching.

Jill Bartholomew (05:17)
No, it didn't exist,

especially for endurance athletes.

Wendy (05:22)
Right.

so goo, vanilla bean goo became my food of choice for many, many years because I could tolerate it. I loved when Gatorade was the sponsor because I could tolerate Gatorade. Again, I didn't train with any of this stuff. I used to come home from training sessions thinking I was bonked, but I was more dehydrated than anything else. And then I would just stuff my face with food because I didn't eat enough while I was training. you know, key takeaways was

Justin Goodman (05:25)
you

Wendy (05:48)
I always recommend don't try anything new race day unless you don't have anything else. I mean, I had no really choice because I didn't know. It was my first marathon, so I was scared to death. My longest run before that was 16 miles, so I didn't know what was going to happen to me after 16 miles. So literally my mind was, what's going to happen to me at 16 miles? You know, what's going to happen to me? Am going to bonk at mile 20? Because that's what you learn.

when you train for marathons that you could hit the wall at mile 20. And none of that ever happened to me. And I think it was just because the whole race, I was super focused on hydration and nutrition that not knowingly prevented me from hitting the wall. And the marathon ended up being the best part of the whole race. And I'm a swimmer. I'm a former collegiate swimmer. So running was very, very difficult for me.

Jill Bartholomew (06:36)
Hi. It's rare that you hear people, especially on their first one, like, you know, we were talking before, I do a lot of the runs at Disney too, including Dopey, right? And it's like, I see the same with like the Dopey challenge, which has a marathon component, and Iron Man's, which have a marathon component. I see a lot of people who are doing their first one and it's their first marathon.

And in the back of my mind, I'm like, wow, that's brave.

Wendy (07:06)
Again, I had no choice. I qualified

and I had to get ready in three months and I was injured very quickly. It was very, very quickly. Cause after I qualified before I qualified, I was probably running 15 to 20 miles a week. I remember like two weeks before I'm at that half, I ran 13 miles just to think, just to know I could run 13 miles. And then I qualified, I'm all excited. Didn't really know what to do other than I love to train and I bumped my miles up to 40 miles and I was quickly injured for leading up to that.

Jill Bartholomew (07:21)
Hmm.

Wendy (07:34)
first Ironman, first marathon. I learned how to aqua jog. I had a friend who took me under his wing for those final eight weeks and he showed me how to aqua jog. So again, another key takeaway, you know, with all the cross training and aqua jogging, I showed up to the race healthy. Like I didn't try to push through the pain I was in. I just cross trained with deep water aqua jogging back in 1997. I still do it to this day for really injury prevention.

Jill Bartholomew (08:01)
you

Wendy (08:03)
and it worked for me. know, luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.

Jill Bartholomew (08:10)
So it's funny that the episode that we just published last week was actually about injury prevention and rehabilitation. I'm like, know, are we, is a triathlete, is an endurance athlete really an athlete if they don't have a orthopedist and a physical therapist on speed dial Right? I mean, if you've never been injured, God bless you. Yeah.

Wendy (08:17)
huh.

You will be, you're either an athlete that

will be injured or you were injured.

Jill Bartholomew (08:37)
Yeah, yeah, Mike. It feels like a constant battle to prevent injuries. So Justin, you just raced Texas. I just raced Texas. We somehow missed each other while we're out there. How'd it go? And was that your first? That was an emphatic no right there.

Justin Goodman (08:47)
trace analysis.

No, no, no. So that was a... No, no,

no. I love this sport. I do. That was my eighth full. ⁓ Yeah, I've been to Worlds once, trying to get back. I'm in that fun age group zone where I might have to consider quitting my day job to do this full time. ⁓ Hey.

Jill Bartholomew (09:03)
that definitely not your first time.

Hey, that's what I did. quit my day job. I started a business.

I took a significant pay cut.

Justin Goodman (09:22)
For the sport, it seems very tempting. No doubt about it. Yeah. Texas was great. mean, I've got run course was spectacular. I mean, what can I say? mean, love a good sport. You know, the spectators are out there and bringing the energy and hippie hollow. I'm sure, know, anyone who looks into the course, they're going to know. Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (09:26)
Yeah, So tell me about Texas, how'd it go?

⁓ my pace is like a solid minute and

Kamil Dusejovsky (09:46)
Thank

Jill Bartholomew (09:46)
a half

faster through Hippie Hollow.

Justin Goodman (09:48)
I will tell you for first timers and things like that, we got that notification, I think what, 5, 15 in the morning, somewhere in there that wetsuits were gonna disqualify you from age group awards. So you have that moment when you're in line and you see all these people, it's like, should I wear a wetsuit? Should I not wear a wetsuit? That it's 0.6 degrees over? I did not. I went with the speed suit.

Jill Bartholomew (09:58)
Yes.

And so the question is, did you wear a wetsuit? You did not.

So I heard from a lot of people, including a couple of pros, and it mirrored my own experience. This was the worst bar none Ironman swim I have done, period. It was brutal, was brutal, and it shouldn't have been. It was a calm lake. It's a lake swim, it's gross, water's not awesome. But I heard one person describe it as swimming through cement.

Justin Goodman (10:16)
and ⁓

It was, yeah, the current was rough coming out of the canal.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I thought the view, if you look, you poke your head up for a moment, you know, just for spotting purposes, I thought it was beautiful. The water temperature I enjoyed. Yeah. but it was, it was definitely a little bit of a murkier swim. No question about it. but all the same, you know, for so, for so many of these, I'm really finding that point of enjoyment in the sport. especially, know, if you're, if you're there to have a good time, if you're there to compete against yourself, I really just.

Jill Bartholomew (10:50)
the view is great.

Kamil Dusejovsky (10:52)
you

Jill Bartholomew (10:57)
Yeah.

Justin Goodman (11:10)
you know, finding that happy place in, you know, all three disciplines, and not to mention the transition. So.

Jill Bartholomew (11:16)
So I hadn't

seen this in other races I've done. They had that arch halfway through the swim. And I was like, that better not be the halfway point. And I'm like, there's no way that's just the halfway point, right?

Justin Goodman (11:19)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

No, ⁓ I've seen

Well, it's

interesting that you mentioned that, Jill, because my stomping grounds were originally Lake Placid as well. they had an arch. And this is what kind of freaked me out on the swim specifically, is that in Lake Placid, when I did Lake Placid, they had...

a timing belt, timing arch, incorporated into the course for that particular year. And so every athlete had to go through the arch so their timing chip would happen. I thought momentarily that that arch was the same thing, like at a halfway point or something, but it wasn't. And this particular arch, I thought it was, you know, especially for anyone who's interested looking at the course, it seemed that there were just kind of, it was kind of a space for people to hang up. needed a rest for a moment or two.

Jill Bartholomew (12:12)
Yeah,

it was, it seemed like it was really just a marker for the athletes that, hey, you're halfway done. You know, like you said, Lake Placid.

Justin Goodman (12:16)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (12:21)
Yeah, now you get out of the water walk across the beach like 100 feet and then get back in. So you cross two timing mats and in between the timing mats is like a water table, which I think is great. So like, I know a lot of people are doing like Placid this year is their first race, which is awesome. But like it has that where most races you don't, you you don't get out of the water.

This is the first one, than Lake Placid I've been at where there's any kind of, unless you're counting buoys, that there's any kind of indication that you've reached that halfway mark.

Justin Goodman (12:56)
Right, yeah, absolutely. And so that was kind of nice in the water though. And then of course the bike having that wind coming up from the coast when I think you're headed south, but the wind is going north. And so you definitely feel that headed down into Houston. So that's.

Jill Bartholomew (13:10)
So

roughly how long was your swim?

Justin Goodman (13:12)
Roughly speaking, I did it in about an hour and 27, think, 27 and change.

Jill Bartholomew (13:18)
Okay,

okay. So you you probably hit your first lap not the wind wasn't too bad. The second lap it was like a slap in the face.

Justin Goodman (13:26)
No. Well, and

I gotta tell you something, Jill. I don't know if you got to see this out there and for everyone else listening. And this happens, of course, during Iron Man, there was a major obstruction on this particular Iron Man. Yes, that upside down concrete truck. And that when you're going through that lap and you have the officials out there going, move over, move over.

Jill Bartholomew (13:41)
You mean you mean the upside down concrete truck that one?

When

I got there, so I finished my first lap, I was riding largely with the men on their second lap, right? The pro men, a lot of them were kind of riding, you know, the same time. I did get to see Taylor on her bike, which was pretty awesome.

I was five, I forget the girl's name, F, F 19. That's all I remember. Now F 19 was in front of me for several miles. Uh, think it was F 19 or F 16, um, pretty pink, um, purpley like color shifting, uh, speed concept. And, uh, she fell right in front of me, uh, on the, the, the turn, but you know, coming down that first lap, no concrete truck.

Justin Goodman (14:41)
Mm-hmm.

Jill Bartholomew (14:43)
And then did the turnaround and all of sudden, you know, coming back and it's like what? Four or six miles from the turnaround. And all of a sudden, like when you were coming down the horizon, I'm like, heck's that? Like, like, like what's going on here? There's, there's like, like the road looks different. And as you get closer, you're like, there's a vehicle in the road. Upside down. And then you get closer and you're like, Holy crap.

Justin Goodman (14:58)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (15:06)
there's the upside down concrete track with a car underneath it that went through the concrete barricade. like, this isn't like the barricades that they like, like lift in place, like, you know, the pre-made ones and construction zones. No, no, no. This is like the, like they poured the concrete barrier totally broken. There's like suitcase sized chunks of concrete. There was a car windshield in front of me in my lane. And, but it was, it had just happened.

Justin Goodman (15:11)
medium.

Jill Bartholomew (15:32)
There was no EMS, no EMT, there was no race officials, no nothing, just four cyclists on the side of the road wondering what just happened to them. And the rest of us, like going at a crawl to navigate through all the debris that was on the ground to get through it is, that's the most bizarre thing. And I hate to say it because it's like really sad. I'm like, the thing that went through my head was

gosh, I hope they're not going to stop the race.

Then after that it's like, I hope everyone was okay. And I don't know if you heard, I heard from, you know, so afterwards we were talking to Scott Daru, the Ironman CEO in the VIP tent area. And he was telling us that both the driver of the concrete truck and the driver of the car that concrete truck was on top of, both of them were

Justin Goodman (16:00)
You ⁓

I did not hear that. I'm very glad to hear it because that was quite the accident.

Jill Bartholomew (16:22)
So yeah, I

know that was the conversation on the run course when I was, at least the people around me on the run course was like, oh my God. It's like, what else do we have to talk about for 26.2 miles? Is that upside down concrete truck that no one's ever seen or expected? It's like every race brings something new, but like that was a first. I've never seen that one.

Kamil Dusejovsky (16:28)
Thank

Justin Goodman (16:44)
Part of the joy of the sport, you always get to learn something new.

Jill Bartholomew (16:47)
Okay. So aside from the bike that kind of slapped you in the face with the wind on the second lap, and for our listeners who haven't done Texas, the bike course at Texas is on paper, a really easy, fun, fast bike course. It's 19 miles through neighborhoods with a couple of turns, not too many, from transition to the highway. And then it's

21 miles down, 21 miles back, and then you do it again. And then you got roughly 10 miles from the highway back to T2. So like on paper, it's super fast. And for the pros, it was super fast. Taylor and Ibb set a new Ironman ⁓ record for the bike for the women. And Cat Matthews did not set a record for the bike, but it said.

Justin Goodman (17:28)
That's right.

Jill Bartholomew (17:34)
a world record for overall Ironman distance, finish time for the women. And the men also set a course record. So like it was a fast day for the pros. But this particular course has an interesting dynamic, you know, that Justin, were alluding to it is like the wind. The wind start.

early in the day is pretty calm. And as the day goes on, it's, you know, as the tides shift, it gets stronger and stronger and stronger. And then around 1pm, it starts to kind of come back down. And so for most of the age groupers, our first lap, we had like, mild wind, like five to seven miles an hour. But on our second lap, as we approach noon and one o'clock, the wind was hitting in the 20s 2527 miles an hour. And now for me,

I don't know if you saw the same thing sound like we're probably a couple minutes apart on the bike. For me, there was points where I was putting out like, double my FTP and moving 10 miles an hour slower than I was on the first lap, just because of the wind.

Justin Goodman (18:38)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, but then you get to flip around

and then you get that back and more in a sense, which I will.

Jill Bartholomew (18:47)
Well, and that's

the funny thing is like on the return, the way the direction the wind was, we were actually kind of almost like hitting a headwind in both directions. felt like the most bizarre thing because I'm like, we'll get a tailwind. And I was faster on the return. Then I was on, you know, going out the first lap, I was faster coming back than I was going out, but it was still slower than I was on my first lap with no wind.

Justin Goodman (19:13)
Really, so it really kind of picked up then at that point. was definitely feeling the tail on the flip, which I really, really loved.

Jill Bartholomew (19:17)
yeah.

Yeah, I was hoping

for that. like, I don't know, going out, I was like 22, 24 miles an hour average coming back the first time I was like 27. And then like going out the second time, was like 17 and a half. And then coming back, I was like 22. So it wasn't like...

Justin Goodman (19:39)
Well, 17 and a

half, that's pretty good on that second lap. I don't know, there was points where I was struggling just to get up to 15 or 16 at points where it was really coming in.

Jill Bartholomew (19:42)
Good.

Yeah. Well, you know,

you know how, you upload it to Strava, tells you like how, how terribly you did. It's like, it's like, congratulations. 60 minute power PR your FTP changed. And I'm like, no, that's wind. That was wind. Cause you know, at the end of the first lap, I was like, this is great. It's gonna be like a four hour 40 minute bike. And then I get back like, my God. It was like.

Justin Goodman (20:08)
Mm-hmm.

Jill Bartholomew (20:12)
five hour, 10 or something. And it was all that wind. Like the difference is the wind. It was brutal. All right. So.

Justin Goodman (20:19)
Definitely then the humidity

too.

Jill Bartholomew (20:20)
Well, you're from Florida, so you should be used to humidity.

Justin Goodman (20:23)
I'm fairly reasonable,

yes. Yeah, but still, it's still Iron Man humidity.

Jill Bartholomew (20:27)
Yeah. Yeah. so, so before we move on, so I, I did hear a number of people like beating themselves up the next day at the awards and you know, there, there's a lot of DNFs in this race. looked like it was close to 20%, which is pretty high. I talked to a lot of people who DNFed on the bike. a few people who DNF from the bike to the run, like pull themselves, like they made the cutoffs, but they're just like, I can't do this anymore.

Justin Goodman (20:38)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (20:49)
and I said to a few people on the run course, I'm like, you know, you got like 10 hours to get through this marathon. And, you know, they're like, you know, we all reach in these Ironman, like we reached that like pit of doom in our soul. And it's like, man, by the time you've reached the marathon, you have motivated your butt through your own power to go, you know,

hundred and at that point hundred one hundred thirteen miles hundred fourteen miles and it's like that in and of itself is like yeah yeah let's another twenty six we've already got a hundred and fourteen

So Jen, tell us about yourself. What was your first Iron Man? ⁓

Jenn (21:30)
Yes. First

one was Chattanooga. So I've done Chattanooga twice. I've done Texas twice. So I know.

Jill Bartholomew (21:34)
That's a fun one. Chattanooga? Chattanooga,

That's a good one. I love that downstream swim.

Jenn (21:39)
it is.

Great swim, little bit hilly for a Florida girl on the bike, but that's okay.

Jill Bartholomew (21:46)
Have

you done Haynes City? The half there?

Jenn (21:49)
I

have not, I volunteered that race, but I haven't done it yet.

Jill Bartholomew (21:53)
So that's

why I've been doing that as like my end of season race. And it's a fun race and know, the medal doubles as an ornament. But I swear they found every hill in Florida and put it on that course.

Jenn (22:04)
There's only one section

of Florida like that. And yes, they put the race there.

Jill Bartholomew (22:10)
Right. I'm like,

you go to Florida. How did you get 2000 feet of elevation in Florida? When I first saw the elevation map for that one, was like, what would they do? every overpass in the area on the finding purpose. So Chattanooga and Texas. So what were your experiences there?

Jenn (22:13)
Yeah.

Right?

Right. So I mean, Chattanooga was, was great as my first one. had friends that I trained with. My husband was doing it as well, which made it super special. Great swim. As you said, it's down river. Just fantastic. Get out on the bike.

Jill Bartholomew (22:44)
Now, when you did it, did it still have the upriver component or is it purely, had it already changed to downriver?

Jenn (22:52)
No, it was downriver. Yeah, downriver. So great swim, beautiful swim. Swimming is my strength. So I loved it. It was fun. Caught some current and went. The bike, just, I would say it was steady. It was back when the course, I think they've changed it recently, but it was the extra mile. So it was 116 miles.

Jill Bartholomew (23:09)
I saw something

on Facebook. It was posted by Triathlon Joe. So I don't know if it's trustworthy or not, but rumor is that they've gone back to the old bike course. It's a rumor. I don't know if it's true. I guess we'll find out when they eventually publish the athlete gun.

Jenn (23:20)
Really? Interesting.

Right?

What's a few more miles on the bike? It's fine.

Jill Bartholomew (23:29)
Well, mean, isn't that the joke with that bike that is always like two miles long?

So, okay, so downstream swim, swim is your strong suit.

Jenn (23:40)
Yup.

Bike just steady, just wanted to get through it and got onto the run and I felt actually really great on the run. And I caught my husband at about mile 13, about halfway through. He had not had the best race and was struggling. And so I made the decision to walk with him the rest of the race because listen, was the first race. Anything you do on your first race is a PR. So

We just walked it in together and finished the race. think I beat him by one second, technically, which, but we came in together. We finished it. It was special.

Jill Bartholomew (24:16)
Well, I mean, you sacrificed

your race so that he could get that bling. You should at least be allowed to cross first.

Jenn (24:22)
Great.

He has been my Sherpa for many years since that point.

Jill Bartholomew (24:28)
My husband tells people he's a professional sherpa at this point.

Jenn (24:33)
It is a thing for sure. But it being the first one, think anyone who is thinking about doing their first one, that red carpet moment is just so special every time you do it. It never gets old. And I think that that's one thing as a first timer, like to soak in that moment is so important, no matter who you're with and not blow through it.

Jill Bartholomew (24:55)
And as a first timer,

don't forget to ring the bell. Gotta ring the bell.

Jenn (24:58)
and the bell, right! Right.

But don't just plow through the end of it and sprint, unless you're trying to meet some type of time goal. But to me, that is it's just such a special moment to, to hit that red carpet and to soak it in and to enjoy it. So yeah, I've done since Chattanooga, I've done seven folds since then and just keep coming back for more.

Jill Bartholomew (25:22)
Sorry, I lost my voice over the weekend and I've been like all day I've been like, you know, please, please be able to talk in a somewhat normal voice. So this is what you guys get on Sunday. My kids are making fun of me because I was squeaking. They're like, I don't know what you're saying, but it's really funny.

Jenn (25:29)
you

Jill Bartholomew (25:40)
Um, so Kamil, um, so you've done 70.3, you're training for a full, uh, what 70.3 did you do? Oceanside.

Kamil Dusejovsky (25:49)
I did the Oceanside this year. That was my first,

yeah, first triathlon. I've done a few marathons before and I just wanted a little bit of a more of a challenge. So that's why I signed up for the Ironman 7.3 and you know, a little bit different than Wendy when she showed up, you know, to the race back in the day when she, wasn't that much information. I have social media and YouTube. So I watched a thousand videos about Ironman training, nutrition.

I used ChatGPT to help me too. I just was over... I was over preparing.

Jill Bartholomew (26:21)
no, not ChatGPT As a coach, as a coach, please

don't do that.

Kamil Dusejovsky (26:27)
I think if you're someone that has no information, it definitely is a great starting point. So I overprepared, which I usually do, and I got five hours, 28 minutes, which was way faster than I thought I could do.

Jill Bartholomew (26:32)
Yeah.

So how'd you do? So how'd do?

very respectable. It's

very respectable. And so that was your first one. How'd you feel when you crossed the finish line?

Kamil Dusejovsky (26:49)
Yes, I actually finally for the first time paced myself because during all my marathons I would always bonk at some point but the Ironman I paced myself perfectly and I finished strong I still had energy and I had fun the whole time and I realized that's a better way to race than to kill yourself you know and then struggle towards the end.

Jill Bartholomew (27:11)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it depends on your goal, right? You know, beforehand, we were talking about, you're like, you said, well, I am not really an age grouper. I'm an amateur. like, isn't that the definition of an age grouper? We're not pros. We're not getting paid for this. You know, we don't get to, to rock our bikes in the, special corral with the red carpet and you know,

But we also don't have to deal with race ranger either, which I think is a positive. So what was your takeaway aside from like you could have raised harder.

Kamil Dusejovsky (27:42)
Um, yes, I could have raised a little bit harder. the things that surprised me the most was probably swimming with so many people, you know, and getting bumping into people, people bumping into you, grabbing your feet. That was kind of interesting. I wasn't struggling in there, but it was definitely throwing me off of my pool swims where, you know, I have perfectly flat water and every stroke is nice. Over there, I would, you know, every third, fourth stroke I get hit by stuff.

bumped by someone and then just get thrown off my rhythm. So that was definitely something that surprised me. then during the bike, there were in Oceanside, there's few no pass zones and speed limits. And there was a lot of people around us, those no pass zones and speed limits, probably because I'm not that good of a swimmer. So I was, I was with the slower bikers too. And

Jill Bartholomew (28:25)
Mm-hmm.

Kamil Dusejovsky (28:38)
There was just no other way than to somehow get around people because it was a clump of people in a no pass zone. that was kind of surprising to me. I wasn't sure how to deal with it.

Jill Bartholomew (28:46)
So I haven't

done Oceanside. How long is the no pass zone?

Kamil Dusejovsky (28:50)
It's not long, maybe you get through it in minute or two. But there's a lot of people at once, and for some reason people slow down in the low pass zone instead of just keeping their speed.

Jill Bartholomew (28:54)
⁓ okay.

That's fantastic. But I mean, you know, one of the benefits of being a slow swimmer is you get to pass all the slow cyclists, right? Which then at least makes you feel better. know, I remember like, for me, when I did my first 70.3 and I did my first triathlon, the swim,

Kamil Dusejovsky (29:06)
Yeah.

Yes, that's so much fun.

Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (29:27)
I'm a adult on set swimmer. So I've learned. So Jen, have not, or at least I wasn't a competent swimmer. And I got out and had that emotional reaction to transition being like 80 % empty. But on the bike course, you get to make up for it.

Kamil Dusejovsky (29:44)
Yes, the bike was, my course was so much fun and I'm in Las Vegas right now. That's what I've been training and we have Red Rock National Park here, which has a big hill. So I'm used to training on a hill. And so when I got to the hill in Oceanside, it was no big deal for me. And I passed a lot of people on the hill. but it was great. Yeah. passing a lot of people on the bike. then when I got to the run, I think I was around people's same speed with me.

Jill Bartholomew (29:50)
Okay.

to how long you in Vegas long enough to sign up for the T100 coming up.

Kamil Dusejovsky (30:19)
It's the same day as Las Vegas marathon, which I might do for the same weekend So I'm not sure if it'll work out, but I would love to do the T100

Jill Bartholomew (30:26)
come on, between the two,

you know the T100's more fun.

Kamil Dusejovsky (30:30)
It definitely would be more fun, but I might have to do the Las Vegas Marathon. Are you coming here for the T100?

Jill Bartholomew (30:35)
Mm.

No, I have too many, I have too many races. I'm doing Lake Placid again, and I'm doing Happy Valley and Chattanooga. So like three right in a row. I just, I can't fit it in the schedule and you know, have my children not disown me.

Kamil Dusejovsky (30:54)
So since you guys

have experienced with so many full tries, the full Ironmans, which one would you guys suggest as the first one?

Jill Bartholomew (31:02)
Wow, that's such a great question. There's five people. We're going to have five different answers, maybe more.

Wendy (31:05)
Well.

Justin Goodman (31:05)
Cozumel.

Wendy (31:08)
Well, what I've been

thinking is, you know, there's no easy Ironman. You know, people think, a down river swim, it's going to be easy Ironman. No, there's always an element of weather that makes Ironman's tough. You guys talked about the wind, the heat. I always tell athletes, even if you are racing a flat course, expect wind, heat, and hills. And if you become an expert in wind, heat, and hills, where you are able to train in all that, those elements, it makes the Ironman easier for you.

Justin Goodman (31:19)
Hmm.

Wendy (31:38)
And again, based on the Ironmans that we've talked about, think Chattanooga is a good first one. I just really love the town of Chattanooga. I think Arizona is relatively beginner friendly due to the kind of the flat swim, the flatter bike course. Sometimes there's wind, sometimes there's not.

Jill Bartholomew (31:53)
Although

I've heard that the challenge on that one for a lot of people is the swim can be quite cold.

Justin Goodman (32:04)
It is quite cool. I've done that one twice and it's, it's chilly. It's chilly.

Jenn (32:04)
Yeah.

Wendy (32:05)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (32:06)
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (32:09)
And I did it when it

was back in April. So it was different climate when I used to do it back in April. I never did it in the fall.

Justin Goodman (32:13)
home.

Jill Bartholomew (32:16)
That's in what, November now? Yeah.

Justin Goodman (32:18)
It's in November, but Kamil I can't

Wendy (32:18)
Yeah.

Justin Goodman (32:20)
recommend Cozumel highly enough. I thought Cozumel was one of the best. You've got a current swim with tropical fish, clear waters. You've got a great flat bike with a tailwind coming in off the coast and you've got a few out and backs on the run that's relatively flat with the locals chasing you with margaritas. Can't be better.

Kamil Dusejovsky (32:39)
You it.

Jill Bartholomew (32:39)
to Jenn and what was your favorite

one?

Jenn (32:42)
I think for recommendations, depends on what you're comfortable with, with each discipline. So I think the swim is always a big question mark for a lot of people. To your point, Wendy, choosing a river swim is what a lot of people do because they feel more comfortable completing that type of swim. I personally love Ironman Florida, but I'm comfortable enough to swim in the ocean, which can be a huge variable for a lot of people. So I think it just depends.

what you're comfortable with on the swim, what race will play to your strengths as best it can to your point, Wendy, any day. It can be different with weather, temperature, but knowing what the course is going to give you, doing a little bit of research, I think it helps you make a decision for what you're most comfortable with and can train for. Like living in Florida, I would never choose Lake Placid until I could get somewhere. I mean, it would...

Jill Bartholomew (33:30)
and

It would be very different, yes.

Jenn (33:37)
It'd be hard. It'd be very difficult. Even with a trainer going to Haines City, Claremont.

Jill Bartholomew (33:39)
You'd be spending a lot of

time on the trainer on Hill Climbs.

But I mean, it's a good point. You know, said, you know, it can change day to day. mean, you know, we just and I just both did Texas. And that's a great example, right, Justin? You know, it looked like it was going to be wetsuit legal. And like the day before, it was what? Sixty nine degrees or seventy one degrees. It was wetsuit legal by over a degree.

Justin Goodman (34:11)
Mm-hmm.

Jill Bartholomew (34:14)
And, um, no, guess 75, but it was wetsuit legal by like almost two degrees. It was like 1.8 or something. And then it's then the day of the race, it's not wetsuit legal by almost a degree. And I did think it was kind of funny because we were having this conversation that like Ironman almost always finds a way if it's near, if it's close, they like find a way. You know, I've done a few where I'm like, there's no way that this is wetsuit legal.

Justin Goodman (34:23)
pretty close.

Mm-hmm.

Jill Bartholomew (34:44)
And but that one they're like, they're like, no, it's not. I was racked right next to the guy that was making all the announcements and T1. He leaned over to us and he's like, this is not going to be what's illegal. And then he says, whatever you do, don't swallow the water.

Justin Goodman (35:01)
Don't do it.

Jill Bartholomew (35:02)
don't do it. And, you know, I'm a, I'm a coach. work a lot with Tridot and I was at a pool school in Chicago recently. And there's another coach there, um, who's was from Texas had done the Ironman in Texas a few times. And he was telling us how sick he got on the bike from swallowing the water at Texas. And in fact, it got him in the hospital.

I forget what it was. had to be on like antibiotics or something. Like, so all through that swim, that's what I had in the back of my head. I wish he had never told me that story because all through the swim, I'm like, don't swallow the water. Don't swallow the water. Don't swallow the water. Now, how in the world do you swim 2.4 miles and not get water in your mouth? Like you're going to swallow some of it. It's going to come in your nose, your ears, your mouth. Like there's so many ways for it to get.

Kamil Dusejovsky (35:42)
you

Jill Bartholomew (35:56)
into your stomach, right?

Kamil Dusejovsky (35:58)
this.

Justin Goodman (35:59)
It's all the other junk in the water you want to avoid too.

Jill Bartholomew (35:59)
So.

Yeah,

yeah.

Wendy (36:05)
So

I have a quick question, because we're talking about the swims. What if your swims canceled? So I did Chattanooga in  2018 and this canceled that year due to bacteria and I'm a swimmer, but I still wanted to experience a super fast downhill swim. And then it was a time trial start and me having done plenty of Ironmans, I still did it I still call myself an Ironman, but there's a lot of chat going on in social media is if the swims canceled and you only do 138 miles.

Jill Bartholomew (36:17)
Yeah.

Wendy (36:32)
instead of 140.2, do you still call yourself an Ironman?

Jill Bartholomew (36:36)
I my perspective is yes. And you see this all the time. It's not just Iron Man. You see in the running circles as well. Like I said, I do pretty much all the run Disney events as well. And last year in 2024, the half marathon there got reduced to basically a quarter marathon, right?

Justin Goodman (36:40)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (37:02)
it the half marathon got reduced to half of a half. And then for the back of the Packers, it got reduced another two miles. And you know, you had all these like crazy people out in the parking lot doing laps so they could say they did all of the distance. Meanwhile, it was torrentially downpouring. And that one got got shortened because of threat of hail, you know, so a little different. But I think the to me the answer is the same.

you did the course that the race director prescribed on that day. And I think like as long as you did the course that was prescribed to you, then you claim it. I don't know. Do you guys agree with that?

Jenn (37:42)
Totally agree. You can only erase

Justin Goodman (37:43)
Anyway.

Jenn (37:44)
the course you're given on that day. Still an Ironman. Complete it.

Wendy (37:48)
Yeah, I agree.

Jill Bartholomew (37:50)
And what do you think?

Justin Goodman (37:50)
You're there, you

Kamil Dusejovsky (37:50)
If I did

that though, if I did that, I would feel like I have to go do it again.

Justin Goodman (37:50)
showed up.

Jill Bartholomew (37:55)
⁓ that may be

that may be you need that I'm doing Chattanooga this year because I'm like this year, the 70.3 in two weeks because I'm like, it's redemption baby last year I did it was on like a PR bike and my chain snapped.

So I sat there on the side of the road for 90 minutes waiting for the guy. Like I have every tool under the sun with me except for a chain breaker. I'm like, I need to take two links out of the chain. I'm like, somebody give me a chain breaker, please. And, you know, it's like, then I got back on the bike and finished it, but it's obviously becomes a very different race then. So like, you know, now I get you, you know, now it's a redemption race, but still like, you know, on the day of, know, you have to deal with what is handed to you.

And if that's like, you know, cause, uh, you know, the 70.3 recently in is it Austin, think, uh, the other Texas one, that one, this swim got canceled because the wind was so strong. Um, and they had issues with wind on the bike, but I don't know that I have a lot of sympathy for when not the bike, but same, same thing. Um, all right. So you were talking about the swim.

we all come from different swim backgrounds. What about the bike? You know, sounds like, know, Jen, you said that you're, you're a swimmer as your strong suit. What, what's your weakest link? Is it the bike, the runs? Sounds like not the swim.

Jenn (39:12)
I would, I would say the bike, no, the bike.

I'm the opposite of, of what you described. I come out of the water, grab my bike and there's still a lot of bikes. And then the rest of the bike people are passing me. So, the bike has definitely been the biggest challenge for me that I've had to work on.

Jill Bartholomew (39:28)
So then

for you, if the swim is canceled, like you feel disadvantaged. Or like for me, I'm like, I just won a time trial this past weekend. I'm like, yeah, no swim, bring it on, man. I don't know about that. I do enjoy in kind of a sick and twisted way the swim, but yeah, I'm like, I'm not going to be upset if I go straight into a time trial. mean, come on.

Jenn (39:32)
Right. Completely.

Right, you hope for it. Come on, no swim.

Right. Right.

Yeah. The bike I've had to put the most time in to work to improve it for sure.

Jill Bartholomew (39:59)
Okay, just how about you? You know, between the bike, the run, the swim, what's your weak link?

Justin Goodman (40:06)
I would probably say the bike. would probably say that I running running is my strength. That's always been my strength. I was a marathoner. I'm a sub sub five minute miler. You know, I love I love running. Love it all the time. ⁓ It's. Yeah, it's.

Jill Bartholomew (40:10)
Really?

Okay.

I'm so jealous. If I saw a sub five minutes for more than a mile, she probably

putting me on a stretcher.

Justin Goodman (40:28)
it's, I love running. It's just one of those things that, at, you know, at that point, I'm wishing I'm back in the, you know, after the strenuous bike, I'm wishing I'm back in the water all of a sudden, you know, cooling down. So, I mean, I think for me, for time purposes, I find I struggle a lot with the bike, you know, just, you know, making sure I get the timing right as, just when you put it out for nutrition and making sure that I'm.

Jill Bartholomew (40:47)
Mm-hmm.

Justin Goodman (40:53)
I'm staying on target, with conditions as they change, or they get windier, they get hot. You know, drink before I get thirsty, eat before I get hungry, things like that.

but, you know, for me, I know ahead of time, you know, like the swim at the very beginning is going to be for me. just, I'm going to enjoy that process. I enjoy the swim. just think it's, it's a kind of, you know, if you're not doing like escape from Alcatraz and it's absolutely freezing or something like that. or, know, sometimes Arizona, but I think most of the time the bike has those conditions that has the tendency to change a lot more frequently and you're putting a lot of faith into your equipment too. and so you, it's one of those.

things that I always feel very, you know, strong and very motivated, just like finishing strong, getting off the bike and then getting onto the run because then it's, then it's you, then it's you and you and...

Jill Bartholomew (41:40)
So you mentioned

putting a lot of faith in your equipment. And it reminded me, I raced Nice last year. And it was one of those like, race like placid qualified for Nice. And Wendy like you, it's a very short turnaround. It was like 60 days. And.

Justin Goodman (41:44)
Yeah.

Congratulations.

Jill Bartholomew (42:01)
You know, coming out of Nice, like it played to my strengths, right? Like I'm, I'm from new England, you know, I'm used to Hills. live in Southeast PA. If you think Southeast PA is, is flat, then you're nuts because I can hardly go more than 10 miles without getting 1500 feet elevation. Like, unless you're on like a rails to trails kind of thing. And even then you're getting some, but you know, they're.

I saw all sorts of things I didn't expect, right? Like you're talking like the top athletes in our sport and the number of people who like they may be great on as an athlete, but don't know about their equipment. ⁓ I was talking to a lady recently who did Nice and her front wheel fell off her bike on the downhill.

Justin Goodman (42:39)
Hmm.

Jill Bartholomew (42:47)
And I'm like, how does that happen? So most of us today probably have thru-axles, and hers was not a thru-axle, right? And so it obviously wasn't tight enough, and she hit a bump, and there goes the wheel. And I'm like, my god. If you've done that course, your equipment needs to be.

pretty solid because if you're ripping down those downhills at 40, 50 miles an hour, you're going over a cliff if something fails. Right? Or like in Lake Placid, you're going down Keene descent at 50 to 60 miles an hour if you are bold enough. And you have a mechanical failure, you're in the hospital if not dead. Right? And other courses are the same way. So.

Justin Goodman (43:18)
Yeah.

You gotta know.

Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (43:30)
Like, you are putting a lot of faith in your equipment, but also your own mechanical skills. So I think like for me, one of the things I've noticed over the last year or two, like as I've paid more attention to other athletes and gotten out of my own like, like crush this space is, you know, we need to, we need to be better mechanics. Like we need to know our equipment more than we do.

It's like if you talk to a swimmer, you know, they know what wetsuit they're wearing and how it works. They know what goggles they're wearing and why and how it works, et cetera, et cetera, right? You know, same thing with a runner, right? How many, we all run, everyone on this call, we all run. How many pairs of running shoes do you have?

Justin Goodman (44:17)
Are we admitting this publicly? no. ⁓

Jill Bartholomew (44:18)
All right, so does anybody

have fewer than five pairs of running shoes in their current rotation? OK, so you haven't done enough

Kamil Dusejovsky (44:25)
You're filming me.

Justin Goodman (44:27)
I change shoes every single run I do though. I mean that's one of those things I'm like, kind of still on.

Jill Bartholomew (44:32)
All back,

you know, you got your trainers, right? And you have at least one, probably two of those, you know, that they're they're your workhorse, right? And then you've probably got another pair of shoes that maybe are carbon plated or Pebax plated or something, some fancy new technology that's not a super shoe, but responsive for your speed work. And you probably have a race day pair that is a super shoe. Right? So like, you know, we all

Justin Goodman (44:35)
Hmm.

I've got,

think at any given time, I think about 15 pairs of running shoes that I'm constantly using for different things though. Yeah, but I'm admitting it on this call. Sorry everyone. But as...

Jill Bartholomew (45:04)
Alright, you got me beat, man.

So to our 10,000 listeners,

heard it right here, Justin has more than 15 pairs of running shoes.

Justin Goodman (45:17)
But I mean,

but there's so much to consider distance time. Um, you know, what training methods, uh, what's the terrain if you're, is it muddy, is it muddy, is it uphill downhill? Yeah. Totally. And the, and the way.

Jill Bartholomew (45:20)
Yeah!

and weather and like what mood you're in that morning, what phase of the moon.

Wendy (45:30)
Okay. I'm so old school.

Yeah, I'm old school. I'm not a gear person because I started so long ago and gear wasn't readily available. I had a road bike for 16 years before I got my first triathlon bike. I did my first couple Ironmans and Kona on a road bike with, with like clip on aero bars. And I did just fine. I did great. My body adapted to road style geometry. So when I got my first tri bike in 2009, I'd been racing for 16 years.

Jill Bartholomew (45:51)
Yeah.

Wendy (46:00)
I struggled on the triathlon geometry. I didn't like it. I still preferred road riding. I do primarily most of my training on a road bike. I'll jump on the tri bike about eight weeks leading up to a race. But yeah, I was a, I owned one pairs of shoes. had one bike, didn't have power meter, didn't have anything, but it's that's because that's how I was grown up to be. I think this day and age, think equipment is so key and it really does enhance your performance. It's really is a bigger investment.

Jill Bartholomew (46:10)
All

Yeah.

Yeah. And it's so interesting. You you mentioned, you know, road bike versus tri bike, you know, especially for newer athletes. think, I think people feel pressured to buy a tri bike. And it's like, no, you can do these on a road bike. You don't need clip on aero bars. They, they, give you an advantage. but like you can get it done on a, on a mountain bike. If you were really ambitious.

Wendy (46:42)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. When I

did Quick Story, because you all did, a lot of you did Lake Placid, the first year I did Lake Placid was 2002. And there was a guy with the banana seat and these bars, know, like really high bars on a banana seat wearing jean cutoffs and probably Keds. And he finished in relatively probably 13 or 14 hours. But that's how he did Lake Placid.

Jill Bartholomew (46:58)
Thank

I've heard about the guy. Yeah.

Justin Goodman (47:10)
All of it.

Jill Bartholomew (47:23)
I mean, 13 hours is not that bad.

Wendy (47:26)
Yeah, on that bike.

Jill Bartholomew (47:28)
Yeah, that course too, like, you know, a lot of people struggle on that bike. And the run course, I mean, they changed it this year. It's a little bit harder than it was. It doesn't have the long out and back on river run anymore. It's a shorter out and back, but there's a lot more elevation than there had been, because there's now another out and back that's like climbing up a hill.

Wendy (47:43)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jill Bartholomew (47:52)
It's like you look at it you're like, it's flat. No, it's like plus three degrees. But yeah, I know some of my newer athletes, they have like, I don't know what to call it, like not bike envy, but anxiety. It's like, I only have a road bike. like, that's fine. That's fine. Do you have flat pedals or clip-ins? Flats. Okay, maybe we invest in some clip-ins.

Why? Because especially if you're doing hills, it does help. Although I don't know, did you guys see the thing on GCN? So equipment is such a fascinating topic, because we all have our own experiences and our own preferences. And they did a thing like flat pedals versus clip-ins and found that there was no material difference between the two.

Justin Goodman (48:16)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (48:34)
And I'm like, yeah, but if you're good, but like for me, if I'm going up a hill, I pull more than probably as much as I push going up a hill. But if it's like flat, I could see that. I'm like, are you really pulling up on a flat? I don't know. I don't feel like I am, but on a hill for sure. So I thought that was fascinating. But again, it was like, you know, if you only ride on with flats, then.

Justin Goodman (48:34)
Really?

Wendy (48:35)
Wow.

Jenn (48:41)
Mm-hmm.

Jill Bartholomew (48:59)
you know how to operate it, you would imagine. So as we were talking about swimming, Kamil, you me of this. So am I the only one who's gotten out of a Iron Man swim with black eyes?

Wendy (49:12)
I got punched once and it was in a Turkey 70.3, I did a race there. And I got punched and the goggle just sucked my eye and I had a pretty good black eye for many days afterwards.

Jill Bartholomew (49:23)
Yeah

Jason, you are nodding your head. So you have a story there. I can see it.

Justin Goodman (49:30)
I mean, it's one of those things. One of the things I love about the sport is simply, you you're learning through it. So if I do something wrong, you know, if my first Ironman or as I see it wrong, because I didn't know, it's one of those things for anyone listening that, you know, fit on a goggle actually makes a difference for me. It really, it has. And so I remember doing the first couple, like, you know, doing these distances and, you know, in some of the waters and whether it's, whether you're getting bonked or

or anything like that, I'm coming out pulling these things off my eyes that were very ill-fitting. And there's pictures of me that I'm like...

Jill Bartholomew (50:03)
They're not supposed to be suction

cups, man.

Justin Goodman (50:06)
Yeah, exactly. And so it's one of those things that it took me time to, you know, like, all right, I got to try this out. I got to try this and see what's a good fit. then, you know, then comfort, think if I can point this out, comfort is such a big part of the race. And I think that kind of goes across the three disciplines, you know, comfort in the aero position, comfort in your shoes, you know, and so having comfort in goggles and, and, you know, coming out of the water, you know, without black eyes is I think it's hugely important.

Jill Bartholomew (50:24)
Yeah.

Yeah, I ended up I trained in different goggles than I race in Yeah, I might at comfort is the thing like like training. I got those form goggles like a year ago Because I'm like, I don't need my watch in the water anymore I don't need a wet piece of paper stuck to the

pool deck anymore. It's all like in my goggles. But man, do they, it takes me like three days for those goggle marks to go away. And by the time they go away, it's time to put them back on again. But like in the race, like I discovered, um, uh, is it like snake and pig, I think is the name of the brand. They're like the most comfortable goggles out there. I swear to God, they have like this like,

air-filled gasket that goes around it. And I'm like, I'm not so fast that a little angular design is going to make me material really faster. I'm like, you get out and your eyeballs are still where they're supposed to be. But now I did this.

It wasn't a Ironman branded race. was a 70.3 from this, there's a company in the Northeast that does these sprints, Olympics, couple 70.3s, kinetic. And, you know, was down in like the Baltimore area. It was a cold swim.

And, you know, it was in like the Harbor area. was a very cold swim. I got out of the water. was like a bit blue, but I, you know, the 70.3 started in a different spot. They had at the same time an Olympic running. And so we went off and it's like three laps of this like dock area.

And I was on going into like lap two and the gun goes off for the Olympics. And so you have like the pointy end of the Olympic kids with which are all guys going out in the water at the same time that the 70.3 folks are like a quarter of the way through their second lap. And these guys just swam over us. I not only got out the water.

blue, but with two black eyes. The guys, more than the women, the guys will swim over you, through you, under you, around you, get out of their way because they are not going to stop or move for you. Certainly not at the pointy end, right? So that was a lesson. Kamil, talked about lessons in the water. That was a lesson in the water for me is like in a race like that, get out of their way.

Kamil Dusejovsky (52:59)
Yeah,

unfortunately, you know, it wasn't just that people be bumping into me. I was bumping into people too, just because my low swimming skills, I guess. Yeah, it is.

Jill Bartholomew (53:06)
It's a contact sport They don't tell you that.

Yeah, Ironman,

Swim, you know, they're a full contact sport.

Kamil Dusejovsky (53:15)
Yeah, I guess you can take the route all the way out, but...

Jill Bartholomew (53:20)
Yeah, you can, but then if you're not doing a great job of sighting then you're off in La La Land. So one of the things that you see a lot about in the Facebook forums, Reddit, wherever you peruse your information, and you hear about it on lot of podcasts, is bike fitting.

Kamil Dusejovsky (53:28)
Yeah, true.

Jill Bartholomew (53:45)
So Wendy, you you made a point earlier that you were doing this before all these different types of equipment were sexy or even invented. you know, have you had a bike fit?

Wendy (53:57)
Yeah, so again when I started triathlon, I started with sprints I was a collegiate swimmer and I did the swim my very first triathlon I did the swim portion I watched a bike or I watched the runner and then I did the whole sprint the next year and I was hooked and I did it on my mind I did my first one on a mountain bike and then I quickly I had a lot of road racing friends from Ann Arbor, Michigan who said you need a road bike and the best advice I got was don't ride don't buy the first road bike you ride because I wanted to

Jill Bartholomew (54:00)
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (54:25)
because I was coming from a mountain bike background. So I didn't purchase the first road bike. I did try to shop around and I got a, I did get a fit back then. It was just a basic fit. But professional fits really started when I was getting a tri bike. I had, I had, you know, maybe four different road bikes and within that 16 year period. actually I got a custom bike. That was actually huge because that was a total fit. But when I got a tri bike,

I struggled with bike fits. And so I had multiple fits. I've had multiple tri bikes and the one that I got worked for me that was a track speed concept. And I had that one for three or four years. And then I ended up selling that one during COVID because people wanted bikes. And I'm like, I'm ready to get rid of this bike. And I got another bike. But bike fit, tell people is the most important investment in the sport.

Jill Bartholomew (54:55)
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (55:16)
you know, you can't, besides coaching is the most important investment if you can handle it. But I think bike fit is so key because if you're not comfortable on your bike, that makes for a long day. Even if you just do sprints or Olympics, it's just you're going to be uncomfortable on the run. You know, you're going to have a bad day if you're not comfortable on your bike.

Jill Bartholomew (55:35)
You know, I heard a statistic recently that of all triathletes, that less than 2 % hire a coach.

Wendy (55:45)
That is so low.

Jenn (55:46)
Hmm.

Jill Bartholomew (55:46)
And the inverse is also true that of triathletes who podium, almost 100 % of them have a coach. And it's like not a surprise. And Kamil, you saw my reaction earlier to chat GPT for training plans, because a lot of people are using them. I was talking to someone in Texas. I was one of the coaches in the TriDot tent for a while.

Wendy (55:53)
Mm-hmm.

Jill Bartholomew (56:09)
And, you know, he had a chat GPD plan and I was like,

Okay, good luck.

Kamil Dusejovsky (56:15)
benefit of a coach is not you know in just getting the information but also it helps you comply with the information so I definitely see that hiring a coach is much better than getting information from someone.

Jill Bartholomew (56:26)
Yeah,

mean, coaching is, I think there's a couple of coaches on this call, Coaching is so unique because it's individual, right? And like, if your coach is a good fit for you, you know, I've had athletes who like, when they want hired a coach, they really wanted an accountability buddy. And it's like, I'm not an accountability buddy, but some coaches might be, right?

But in others like me are gonna be like, okay, well, like, I wanna see the data and how you're doing. And I wanna see your plan adjust based on how you're doing and have the conversations, right? And like, if you're struggling on the run, ChatGPT and these canned plans, which are fine, if you're just wanting to get across the finish line, you know, they may not understand that like you've got a niggle.

you know, happening in your calf or your quad or your your hamstring, where I'm gonna be like, Okay, let's go take care of that. Go to go talk to a PT or an ortho, you know, before we go too much further, because like, that niggle could rapidly turn into a tear or worse, right? Or like, you know, Wendy, you said you went from from, like 12 miles a week to like 40, right? It's like,

Wendy (57:43)
Okay.

Jill Bartholomew (57:43)
You know, what's the first thing that goes through our head is like, Oh, like now you're at risk of your muscle and, you know, skeletal problems, right? It's like, yes, that's when stress fractures happen. That's when, that's when tears, you know, tears and strains and pulls happen. And, know, we were joking earlier, like, you know, are you really an athlete if you don't have a PT or an ortho on speed dial, but that's wise because we've all done that. Right.

You know, I inadvertently ended up running three marathons on a partially broken bone. had no idea. And it's like, you know, why is because, you know, I got bad advice and we thought it was an IT band issue and it turned out, Nope, Nope. It was, it was a fracture. And it was exactly the same things. Cause you know, my load didn't increase, but my pace did. went from like a 12 minute runner to a six and a half minute runner in like four months time. Cause you know, which had I had a good coach at the time, he would have called out and been like,

probably getting too fast, quick. That's when those kinds of things happen. So Wendy, back to the bike fit. I always recommend to my athletes when they get a bike, get a bike fit. I've heard a lot of different guidance, like people should get them every year, anytime that you have significant changes in body weight or musculature.

right, like if you get a lot stronger or if the opposite happens that you should invest in one. Now they're not cheap, right? At least a good one around here. You could easily spend three to $600 on a quality bike fit. For you, like what benefit did you see from it? Cause you know, you've been doing this for a while. You've had several bikes, you know,

Wendy (59:10)
Okay.

Yeah, I mean, so

just comfort, wanting to ride my bike because it was comfortable. I, you know, I never really had any crotch issues like a lot of people will have. My saddles have never given me issues, but it was more like upper body. have a leg length discrepancy. So part, a lot of my so-and-so called running injuries where I get injured while running were attributed to an improper cleat fit or an improper bike fit.

And so because I was so unbalanced on the bike and I was putting in all those miles on the bike and an uncomfortable position that would carry over to when I would run, I would get posterior tibialis tendonitis, IT band syndrome. And the list goes on of how many injuries I had in those early days of training. comfort, you know, again, especially my upper body, my neck, my back, my lower back is so important. And then, you know, I've been in the sport, I'm going on year 33.

I'm older, my body's changed. I'm not as comfortable as I was 10 years ago. So I have to dial in my bike fit if I plan on doing these half Ironman's Ironmans because my last Ironman was in 2022 and now I'm doing more like ultra running. But in that 2022 Ironman, I've had this severe lower back pain. And again, that's just due to age. I probably have a little arthritis.

I could probably afford to just dial it in a little bit, maybe give up a little bit more aerodynamic for comfort.

Jill Bartholomew (1:00:48)
Yeah. And you know, in a sprint, you can get away with a lot. When you're doing a hundred plus miles on a bike, that's a long time in the saddle. And, you know, most of these courses we've talked about, you know, there's not a lot of relief from being in the saddle. Lake Placid, okay, maybe you're out of the saddle a few times, but the rest of these, like, these are all, we've talked about mostly flat courses.

Wendy (1:00:52)
Mm-hmm.

right?

Jill Bartholomew (1:01:15)
And the advantages, they're flat. The disadvantages, you are in the saddle the whole time and you are pedaling for 112 miles, nonstop.

So, Jen, how about you? Have you had a bike fit?

Jenn (1:01:31)
Yes, definitely multiple times. Cause as you said, things change or even just it being multiple years between bike fits. And again, comfort is the biggest piece of having that bike fit. also think it's important. don't think some people realize when they go to get a bike that they also are sized. Like knowing your size, knowing which brands might fit better to your geometry, your specific build.

is also a big thing. So purchasing the right size bike also plays a big part because there's only so much you can do in a bike fit to adjust for some of that. So you want to make sure you have the right bike for you.

Jill Bartholomew (1:02:10)
I can't possibly be the only one who bought the bike that the bike shop told me was the right size as my first bike and then later learned that it was the wrong size.

Jenn (1:02:23)
I'm sure that happens a lot.

Jill Bartholomew (1:02:24)
Oh yeah. Yeah. My first road bike, I love it to death. was, you know, one of the ones that was like, you know, this is, I was speed skating a lot at the time. It was, uh, I bought it in like 2001 is one of my first big post college purchases, you know, with what felt to me like, you know, adult money that I now know is like more like pre-adult money. And you know, that

bike was too big for me. I still love it is so pretty. You know, I let my son use it. It's now 25 years old. And he's like, Mom, this thing's an antique. But you know, now on a proper like sized bike is like, this is what it's supposed to feel like. How about you, Justin?

Justin Goodman (1:03:10)
Time for a new bike. Time for a new bike fit. Yeah, right. ⁓

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:03:13)
You

Jill Bartholomew (1:03:14)
That's what you got from this call. I mean, every day is a good day for a new bike. Let's, let's be

honest, right? That, that is what I have learned over the last five years on Facebook. Every day is, every day is a good day for a new bike.

Justin Goodman (1:03:23)
Have good.

I definitely agree. I have had multiple bike fits. I've had a couple of bikes now. And, you know, it's like everyone said, you know, definitely, you know, your body chemistry changes and, know, as you get more involved in the sport, your needs of the bike change too. of course, you know, as you become, I think, more competitive, at least in my case for myself, you know, I'm wanting to, you know, find ways to...

compete against myself, which is nice. So I think that definitely helps.

Jill Bartholomew (1:03:50)
I mean, we're not getting,

I assume none of us are getting paid to show up at these races. So the only person to compete against is ourselves. Yeah, I'm certainly not getting paid to cross that finish line. I'm paying a lot of money to cross that finish line. But you know, I mean, I got the whole math going on the bike. It's like the bike was expensive, but the more of these I do, the cheaper the bike gets, right?

Justin Goodman (1:04:00)
Yeah, exactly. So.

That's the only idea. ⁓

Jenn (1:04:14)
I like that math.

Jill Bartholomew (1:04:14)
that the cheaper each race. So

just go sign up for all the ones that you can because the more you do, the cheaper it gets.

Justin Goodman (1:04:20)
Yeah.

Jenn (1:04:22)
you

Jill Bartholomew (1:04:22)
I don't

think it works that way, but I mean, it sounds good. know, Kamil, how about, how about you bike? What do you ride?

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:04:29)
Speaking of bike fits so in I

did the Oceanside in April right in January That's when I bought my tri bike off of Facebook marketplace. It's pretty nice. It's a Cervélo P3 I think, P-series, Cervélo P-series But the person I was buying it from was telling me it's a good size for me

Jenn (1:04:49)
Hmm.

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:04:49)
but it

was a 58 size 58 and for my height I should have size 54 and when I took the bike so right from him I went to the cycling store and they ride away said how tall are you? I'm saying five nine like that bike is way too big for you and I was telling them look I'm like I tried riding it it seems fine because I've never had a nice bike you know it seems like I can ride it and so I told him to just

Jill Bartholomew (1:04:52)
A big bike.

Mm-hmm.

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:05:15)
kind of try as hard as they can, know, like put the seat down, the aero bars back, make it work for me. And they said, this is going to be bad. You need a new bike. But I made it work. for the three hours in Oceanside, I was comfortable, but I cannot imagine sitting on it for more. So I'm hoping, like you guys are saying, that Bike Fits could make it more comfortable. That if I get a...

Jill Bartholomew (1:05:18)
make it work.

Jenn (1:05:19)
Yeah.

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:05:38)
bike fit or might have to downsize the bike for the full Ironman. I'm hoping it's going to get more comfortable and maybe get more power out of it.

Jill Bartholomew (1:05:46)
Well, you know, you can go to a bike fitter before you buy a bike so you know what size to get.

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:05:51)
and how do I find a bike fitter?

Jill Bartholomew (1:05:54)
and Google.

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:05:54)
Google, Pike Feather, okay.

Jill Bartholomew (1:05:56)
There's a lot of them. Yeah, yeah. I know around here there's two or three that are pretty well known. But yeah, most bike shops do an okay job of getting it in the right size.

Jenn (1:05:56)
would also ask in the community. Yeah.

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:06:10)
Okay, and so then you get geometry that you need and then you go buy a bike and you know how to set up your aero bars.

Jill Bartholomew (1:06:15)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I set up an appointment and like, hey, I'm looking to buy a new bike, you know, help me figure out what the right size is for me. They'll want some information, right? Like, like what brand, what model are you looking at? Or they can make recommendations on bikes based on what they see.

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:06:36)
See when I bought the bike I saw 54 to 58 I think that's centimeters and it's not that much. So in my head it didn't seem like a big deal.

Jill Bartholomew (1:06:41)
Mm-hmm.

I don't know, for me, I'm in a 52 and I'm 5'10", 5'9 1 1 1 and like my road bike is a 52, my speed concept is a medium, which is like a 52 to 54. And my son is like 6'1", he's in a same Madone road bike, he's in a, I think 56. But like,

in this sport like millimeters matter, I had a horrible time getting a seat that I didn't hate. And for me, like, I did end up getting like the bi-saddle, the adjustable one, but that was after getting like a bike seat specific fitting.

And to find out that I, what I already knew I have narrow hips, which means I have.

narrow sit bones. And you know, getting one that actually was narrow enough was a challenge. And then we got it on the bike and like on the road bike, it's fine. Like I can ride like anything on the road bike. But when you're down in like the aero position, like everything changes. And so my seat is actually tilted at like minus five degrees or four degrees, something like that. And like one millimeter front to back.

made like a massive difference. was like the one millimeter made the difference between I hate this seat and this bike and this sport. And my God, this is awesome. Right? Like one millimeter. Of course, the other big thing, I was super skeptical because I'm like, there's flavor of the day stuff too in this sport, right? Like every sport has flavor of the day. And right now, like what crank arm length are we all running?

It's like, if you've had a bike fit recently, we're all on 165s, right? Because that's what the pros are all running. They're all running like the short cranks. But you know, the ones I put the 165s on and it made a difference, right? It can spin faster. But when I showed up, they're like, why do you have road bike cranks on your speed concept? I'm like, I don't know. It's what Trek sent me. It's the same thing. So it's an expensive mistake.

Justin Goodman (1:08:52)
You

Jill Bartholomew (1:08:56)
know, SRAM Red is not cheap, right? And their cranks are not cheap. But yeah, that's what it came with. All right. So I have one question for everyone. So we've talked on a lot of topics today. I hope this is like really informative to the people that have, you know, that are listening. I've certainly learned a lot, right? We all have our own experiences, but it's always fascinating, you know, hearing, you know, other people and like what you've experienced, like how it's different, how it's the same.

One of we kind of talked about a little bit, but not a lot is like nutrition, right? Like Wendy, you were talking about Gu and how like when you started this sport there really wasn't a lot of advice on nutrition. And it is a relatively new sport compared to like road running. And even there, I'm a certified run coach and like even that, like the advice on how to fuel for run has changed over the last 10 years.

Right. And, you know, Justin, you were talking about like water and learning how to drink, you know, before you got thirsty, right? Where like 10 years ago, 20 years ago, the advice was like, drink when you're thirsty, drink to thirst. And like, what we know now today is like, if you drink to thirst, then you might be going to the hospital at the end. Right. so how did you all approach nutrition? Because, you know,

You know, Wendy, I think you said a hundred grams an hour, which like, when you said that, thing that that flipped through my mind is like, wow, like the advice we give, you know, men today is 70 to 90 and women as like 50 to 70.

Wendy (1:10:32)
Right. So what happened to me was again, I didn't know that's the only thing I was focused on is making sure I was eating and drinking. And I got lucky. I didn't have any GI distress due to that volume of, of carbohydrate. And I think I, I think I was hypoatremic after my first Ironman before hypoatremia really was known. Cause I was really, really puffy. I peed six times on the bike that year. I peed like every two miles of the run. And I would just douse myself with,

Jill Bartholomew (1:10:49)
Mm-hmm.

Bye.

Wendy (1:11:01)
sponges, but it was just water going through me. And I was really, really puffy at the end of that race because I think I over hydrated with water and not enough electrolyte back then. So fast forward 10 years later in 2007, I got invited to go to the Gatorade Sports Science Institute and had my sweat rate tested. And what that involved was a two hour heat, Kona heat acclimated 85 degrees, certain percent humidity on the bike at your race pace effort.

and then a two hour treadmill run in that climate at your race pace effort. And they measured how much you ate and drank and the day before and collected urine samples and all that. And my body weight didn't change, changed maybe by a half pound, which showed me I was hydrating enough, but they totally told me, they're the ones that said you were eating way too much carbohydrate. So they dialed down my carbohydrate intake to 50 grams an hour. And so that was about one gel.

and maybe a bottle of Gatorade per hour or half a bottle of Gatorade per hour, depending on how many calories was in it. And the next year in 2008, I had the race of my life. And so that told me how valuable dialing in your own personal hydration needs, your electrolyte needs, which again, back then they told me I get enough electrolyte from Gatorade that I didn't need to take any extra sodium pills or anything like that. So that's when I really started learning about.

Jill Bartholomew (1:12:18)
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (1:12:25)
fueling and how important and how valuable it is to practice and training and get it dialed into your own personal sweat loss needs.

Jill Bartholomew (1:12:35)
I think that's fascinating, especially about the electrolytes, because I think marketing today scares a lot of people into thinking that they need to be taking all the supplemental electrolytes when, depending on what your nutrition plan is, you might actually be already getting what you need. So Jen, how about you? What do you do?

Wendy (1:12:57)
Right.

Jenn (1:13:00)
I have been the

definition of what not to do with two trips to the ER after races. Yes. one was not my first Ironman, my second time at Chattanooga. I was in the med tent for quite a while. And then later in the ER, I, it's just one of those things, you know, nutrition is the fourth leg of the race. I think I put my salt in my handheld and just forgot about it. And

Jill Bartholomew (1:13:06)
Ooh.

Jenn (1:13:24)
for part of the run and it went from there. So really figuring out.

Jill Bartholomew (1:13:28)
So

⁓

Jenn (1:13:31)
I

lack of, for that case, was low on potassium, magnesium, so all the things. was low, not enough. ⁓ And then, gee.

Jill Bartholomew (1:13:35)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

you did all the time.

So before, let me pause you for a second.

So has anybody else experienced low potassium on a run or a race?

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:13:50)
What does it feel like?

Jill Bartholomew (1:13:52)
hell.

Justin Goodman (1:13:54)
Does craving

a banana, is that the same thing? ⁓

Jenn (1:13:56)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:13:57)
No. Well, I mean, that's your body

telling you you need more. But like a lot of people mistake cramps for needing sodium when like usually it's not sodium. Usually it's an electrolyte of some sort and often it's potassium. Like so Jen, had probably not this not to the same degree, but I had an experience similar with potassium where I actually learned on a marathon that I

I'm low potassium and you know, didn't end up going to the hospital, but I'm sitting there at like mile 20 and on both legs, my shins and calves were both cramped. It was like my foot was fighting on what if it wanted to pull down or up. That was the worst marathon experience of my life. So it sounds like...

Jenn (1:14:42)
Yeah,

it's very similar in that I finished the race. finished, crossed the finish line, thought I was okay. Took a bite of pizza. That didn't go so well. And the cramping start, my hands literally, could not, hands and feet, I couldn't move them. They put me in a wheelchair and I'm just cramped in a position that I just, I couldn't move. So yeah, cramps are definitely.

a huge sign of the potassium piece. Once I got to the ER, I was also very shaky, which was a sign of just those low levels. So I will say I have worked, I've done the sweat test, trying to figure things out. Living in Florida, you can't afford to not know how to do your nutrition in the heat and humidity. And I actually started working with a nutritionist who is in the sport to help me really dial in because I did

And I knew with the heat that if I didn't dial things in, was probably not going to end well for me, just given past history. So I, yeah, I can't advocate enough that figuring out ahead of time what's going to work for you is really critical.

Jill Bartholomew (1:15:49)
So Kamil, what do you do for nutrition?

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:15:53)
So like I mentioned before, tend to over prepare and overthink things. I, during my training days, right under long ones on Saturday, Sunday, I would try feeling as much as possible. And especially on the bike, it's, kind of makes time pass by a little bit faster. So I snack on the bike a lot. It was mostly solid foods when I was training and then I transitioned into gels and you probably gonna

Jill Bartholomew (1:15:57)
and

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:16:19)
hate me for this but I asked Chet GPT how to make my own nutrition gel, sports gel and my hydration mix too and then I made both and I was just eating them and I couldn't make a bigger package put it in my bike and I would basically fuel as much as

Jill Bartholomew (1:16:21)
Hate is such a strong word,

Mm-hmm.

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:16:40)
I wanted or could handle. And since I have bodybuilding background, it's easy for me to eat a lot of food. And so it's more than I have to limit myself rather than push myself to eat more. So I was able to take in a thing like 90, 100 grams of carbs per hour during the race. And I think that's why I felt amazing all the way through to the end.

Jill Bartholomew (1:16:53)
Okay.

Yeah,

for most men, like 90 is kind of on the high side, but not outrageous.

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:17:10)
I did notice, Wendy mentioned, the puffiness I did, because I carb up for the race maybe a little too much and I drink a lot of water and you know, electrolyte drinks and I was very puffy and I wonder if I could improve that.

Jill Bartholomew (1:17:16)
Mm-hmm.

You know, if you're puffy, like

it's obviously a sign that something's not working the way it should be. For a lot of people, it's a sign that they're not drinking enough. It's like water retention is a sign that you're dehydrated, ironically. But it can go the other way too, right? If you're taking a lot of electrolytes, it can also be a sign that you are taking too much in. So there's

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:17:47)
And then

there's added body weight with the carb upright and taking in a lot of water before. And I wonder what's the balance between gaining too much weight before the race and then being lighter and more efficient.

Jill Bartholomew (1:17:51)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I see a lot of advice online about that, especially in the running communities. And like the contemporary advice that I've been hearing a lot about, Jen, you know, maybe you've heard differently is basically anything you do more than 24 hours out from the race, you know, nutritionally is of limited benefit, whether it's like, you know, hydrating, because, you know, a lot of people will start like, increasing their volume of

you know hydration a couple of days or a week before the race, which like you can do to a point But it may have limited benefit but like carb loading More than a day or or two at most out is really not giving you the benefit a huge benefit Although pizza certainly tastes good So Jen, I don't know is that does that kind of jive with like this what you've been kind of hearing Yeah

Jenn (1:18:54)
Yes, same. Just making

sure all the levels are kind of topped off, but not to go to any extreme.

Jill Bartholomew (1:19:00)
Right. Yeah, I was in one forum. It was a running forum where this coach, this woman who's a coach, was sharing her nutrition plan kind of two weeks out from the race. And she was telling people, she's like, you should start increasing your hydration now. Start increasing. then the amount of carbs she was adding so far out was really significant.

And I remember, like, I had posted, I'm like, I'm like, please don't do this. This is kind of a dangerous plan. And to her credit, she she she she was very kind of open. After the race, she ended up in the hospital because like that was a bad plan. And, you know, it's like you kind of have to be careful with like the overindulgence is like, you know, carb up. Yes.

But doing it for a month in advance is probably just going to add more around your waste. So, Justin, I don't think you shared what your nutrition plan was, but we kind of chatted a little bit about it before we started recording. like, how's that going for you?

Justin Goodman (1:20:06)
Yeah.

Well, you know, I have my plan while on the bike. That's, that's really my main source of nutrition at any given time. I was very fortunate in my very, my first Ironman that I ran across, the prior, voice of the Ironman, Mike Riley. and he gave me some, you my first Ironman, not really knowing what I was doing, gave me some really great tips. and to these days, I still, I still.

keep them to heart, including getting up at three in the morning, the day of the Ironman to have, you know, a half a sandwich. I still do that. And, you know, then, you know, I'll eat a Gros Le Bar on the way from transition to swim, you know, or something like that. So I'm, I'm feeling not overly bloated, but fueled going into the swim and feeling good. And then the moment I'm out of the swim, that's when I was, that's the first thing I do as soon as I get on the bike is start, I,

Jill Bartholomew (1:20:44)
Mm-hmm.

Justin Goodman (1:20:58)
I swear by him, my uncrustable sandwiches. I love them. I, that's, they're.

Jill Bartholomew (1:21:01)
I love I was hoping you were gonna say that. I love uncrustables.

I will not if you've heard the podcast before, I kind of make fun a little bit about people who bring sandwiches on the bike. I'm like at some point, it's more of a puree than a sandwich. But I'm like uncrustables in the morning, like there's nothing more satisfying than an a partially frozen uncrustable.

Justin Goodman (1:21:20)
or something.

That's

it. So then, you know, I'm having my goose. have my two bottles behind me that are always carrying nutrition with me. So I have, I'm starting off with branch chain amino acids and then an electrolyte bottle and then, you know, goose and salts. And yeah, I'm one of those guys that also takes Advil. but one thing that I did learn, I think about, oh, oh yeah. No, that's a, no, that's, that's in the morning. That's like, that's it. Done. Done. One and done. But why am...

Jill Bartholomew (1:21:43)
But you're careful with that, right?

Okay. Yeah, I

heard it probably made up metric last year that like the leading cause of liver issues in triathletes is overindulgent in anti-inflammatories and NSAIDs

Justin Goodman (1:22:02)
Well, and on that note, so for me, running, it's really hard for me to consume. I I drink and I take fluids, but eating solids while running is just a hard thing for me to do. And I've always been like that. It doesn't matter if it's a 5K marathon, doesn't matter what it is. So, you know, I have to feel fueled going into that, into the run. So I can do gels. Gels are fine.

while I'm running. But that's something. So one thing though that I did learn and for me, I, for any sort of GI distress, special needs bag, I'm just going to throw it out there. Tums and Pepto Bismol. I've had that situation where I'm like calling out my name, grabbing the Tums. I'm like, if I'm having some GI distress, done. So that's, you know, that's something I'm definitely going to pitch, but during the race. Yeah.

Jenn (1:22:39)
Bye.

Jill Bartholomew (1:22:49)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:22:49)
Is during the race? During the race?

Jenn (1:22:51)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:22:52)
Yeah. So, so you haven't done a full yet. So in the full distance, you have five bags that they give you, right? In the half distance, they have three, right? You got your morning clothes bag, you know, which you should put in like anything that you, you want immediately after the race. but you, and then you got, know, your, your bike, you know, T one bag, your T two bag.

but you have two special needs bags. are they special needs, the personal needs? They changed the name recently. I don't remember which way it went. just like wetsuit strippers are now peelers. it's like we're bananas. So taking our wetsuits off, you're, peeling them off, I guess. but, but in those, can put whatever you want. The only restriction is you're not getting it back. Right.

Some races you do, but like the vast majority, you know, and you'll get that usually about halfway through the bike and halfway through the run. Some courses you can access the bag on their run multiple times. Some, even though you're running past it multiple times, you can only access it once. like Texas, you run past it three times, but you're only allowed to get into it once. Like Placid, you run past it four times and you can get into it four times.

So like every course is different. Niece was the same way, you you run past it like on that one, like eight times and you could potentially get into it eight times. Talk about a boring run course. It's like flat. I think I had like one foot of rise and it's like out back, out back four times each way. Very boring. The bike was phenomenal, but the run, not so much.

So like, well, I learned one of the things that I learned after my first, so I wear contacts and what the problems with the contacts, at least for me, like they're the daily ones and the ones I wear specifically made for sports. So they're supposed to be like more hydrating or whatever. It sounds really sexy, but they get foggy. Like, you they get dry and they get foggy and like,

on the bike, especially the run, especially like the sweat and the salt getting in your eyes can like really fog fog them up. So I since they're dailies, right? You know, it's like, you know, okay, I'll wear my comp, I'll wear my regular glasses a couple extra days. I throw into each of those four bags, a set of contacts. So if I lose one on the swim, I know after the swim, I've got another set waiting for me and T1.

And same thing on the bike. My personal needs bag has a set my run bag in T2 has a set and my personal needs bag has a set. I also put in mine, you know, the little travel size things of sunscreen, which did not come in handy too much in at Texas. I got very sunburnt on the bike.

And then I also put it, you know, little disposable things, the chamois cream, I put one in each one of those bags because like,

There are so many places you can chafe and it is such a useful thing. And I don't bother with like, like body glide. I'm like, chamois cream is better than body glide. Like, you know, on the run, just, just use chamois cream. It's a, it's easy. You buy it on Amazon for like nothing for like 50 of those little disposable things. And she, you know, use it too bad. It's like 50 cents gone.

Jenn (1:25:44)
you

planning of those bags can be quite stressful. So the more you can think about it before you get to the race and kind of know these bags exist and plan for them, the better. Cause I do remember my first Ironman being like overwhelmed and really overthinking every single bag.

Jill Bartholomew (1:26:19)
Yeah.

So, at Texas and I talk about Texas like the most recent one, I was one of the, that like ask a coach, you know, people for the first time or Q and a, and by far the, the, the most common question that I got in that Q and a was, what do I put in my personal needs bag? And I'm like, it's up to you, man. What do you think you need? But here's, here's what I do.

It's like a lot of people, especially if you're not using on-course nutrition, like nutrition, water bottles, contacts, women put pads or tampons in there. It's you put what you need in there. It's yours. The only thing to remember is you're not getting it back.

So.

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:27:06)
You

guys mentioned the peanut butter jelly sandwiches. What's a good mix of solid food and gels for the race? Because I'm thinking to full Ironman it would be really hard to just eat gels for know 11 hours straight.

Jill Bartholomew (1:27:19)
This is such a great question,

Kamil. How many of us have on the run, you know, had like a fabulous bike and then got on the run and just wanted to puke at some point?

So Jen's, is that, yeah, yeah. Wendy, you.

Jenn (1:27:31)
Yeah.

Wendy (1:27:35)
I've never really

felt that bad on the run, but I did want to I just thought of one of my Ironmans It was called 5430 sports in Boulder in 2002 or 2003. I trained with jelly beans instead of gels For forever for jelly beans and by the time I got to the race I had a fanny pack full of jelly beans for the run and I got it and I tossed it right away because I'm like I Cannot eat another jelly bean

And so then where was I left to do? I had no fuel. So I relied on the generic stuff that they had at the aid stations. Again, it worked out well for me, but I advise people to always have a plan A, plan B, plan C. And if you know, like I know, I knew early on after I went to the Gatorade Sports Science Institute after 2008, Gatorade was my fuel of choice. It's on the course. I am not going to train with it, because I know it works. So I started experimenting and training with other hydration products, other energy products.

Jill Bartholomew (1:28:13)
Yep. I think that's pretty good.

Wendy (1:28:32)
Eventually down the line, I ended up eating more like real food, like cookies instead of bars, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches in my special needs bag. And I started going more on the whole food nutrition rather than the energy product. I haven't had a gel in years. So it's just good to experiment with first what's on the course to see if you can rely with what's on the course. And then next, what if that doesn't work for you? What are you going to do?

Jill Bartholomew (1:28:57)
I think that's great advice. I learned last year, one of the pros, I forget the guy's name, I think he won Lake Placid last year. He used his gummy bears on the bike. Now in my head, I'm like, how do you carry that many gummy bears?

But I mean, it works for him. So you gotta do it, work, what works for you. I know for me personally, like I rely really heavily on Maurten gels. Why Maurten? Because that's what's on course. But in my training, I don't use Maurten that much. I use precision a lot.

Um, you know, and outside the US, you know, a lot of times it's, um, Maurten for, for gels and precision for the, uh, electrolytes, which I like, I personally like better than this, uh, mortal hydration stuff. Uh, a lot of people that I've talked to, including myself, get headaches with the mortal hydrations, I guess, as I'm like artificial sweeteners in there. Um, I was very disappointed when they switched from Gatorade to mortal, but

Justin Goodman (1:29:53)
Me

too. Just throwing that out there.

Jenn (1:29:54)
Thank you. ⁓

Jill Bartholomew (1:29:55)
Yeah. Plus there's like no calories, there's

like no calories in it. So it's, really have to think, you know, if you're going to rely on that, you have to think really separately about like hydration versus electrolytes versus carbs. And that was when I started experimenting with, like hard high carb, liquid nutrition and like scratch and stuff like that. But,

Jenn (1:29:58)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Jill Bartholomew (1:30:18)
So, Justin, you had a really great reaction to that. There's something behind there.

Justin Goodman (1:30:23)
God, the mortal, I'm sorry. That was just not a switch I was happy about. feel, you know, gotta have little things. I feel strongly about that. But, you know, to kind of get back to, yeah, to get back to Kamil about, you know, like, you know, things to eat and things like that. I also enjoy, you know, granola bars. And I'll tell you, you know, as Jill pointed out, you know, you can have a great bike ride. I can tell you, I did New Zealand a year or two ago.

Jill Bartholomew (1:30:32)
I don't think you're alone in that.

you

Justin Goodman (1:30:49)
and had a great bike ride. was coming in, and I got stung by a massive New Zealand wasp right in the leg, right there. And it's, it's swelled and it blew up. And I ended up in the medical tent for a few minutes and it was like, you know, this golf ball growing out of my leg and it was, they iced it and put, and then I was like, you know what? This is going to suck, but you know, you kind of get back out there. and then exactly had that moment. It was a great bike. And then I.

from that and from whatever else I was going through, completely vomited. And then I was like, okay, this is gonna be one of those days. so, got back on target with nutrition, had to walk for a minute or two, and then finally the pain subsided and then took off. But it's one of those things, there are days that you have it, and I think that's no exception. so having exactly as Wendy pointed out, plan A, plan B, plan C.

Jenn (1:31:43)
Thanks.

Justin Goodman (1:31:44)
having that, it's always, you it's golden.

Jill Bartholomew (1:31:46)
Yeah, I discovered, you know, some, you know, the little applesauce pouches that they have for like the kids. Some of the courses, not all, some of them have them on the food tables. And I always like passed by it because I'm like, that's gonna be gross. It's sitting out in the sun all day.

Justin Goodman (1:31:52)
BOOM

Jill Bartholomew (1:32:04)
Then in Nice, coming off the bike, I apparently was way overloaded on electrolytes. So I was very green. And I didn't know at the time that that's actually a classic sign of having too many electrolytes is having that pukish feeling. But there was nothing to come up because it's all gels, which metabolize pretty quickly.

Jenn (1:32:10)
Thank

Jill Bartholomew (1:32:26)
And about halfway through the run, I grabbed one of those applesauce things. It was like last-ditch effort to not kill myself. And just squeezed that thing, emptied it, went right down. Within 30 seconds, my belly was settled. So sometimes getting that solid in you makes such a huge difference, especially if you're like,

generally on like a liquid or gel plan. when they but you I think one of the things like for for endurance racing in general is like, you know, like you said with the bee sting, you know, he you know, Jen, you were talking about, you know, your nutrition plan gone awry is like, kind of you kind of got to roll with the punches and deal with what you've got in front of you. And, you know, you're kind of like diagnosing on the fly, like, why do I feel this way?

One of the I tell my athletes is I'm like, should always be like taking those moments to like do the self assessment. Like, how do I feel? Why do I feel this way? Can I do more? Do I need to do less? Do I need to change something? And if like, you just have a plan and you stick with it and don't deviate, then you're gonna fail. At least that's my opinion. I don't know if you guys agree with that.

I see head nods, but the people who are listening can't hear the head nods.

Jenn (1:33:39)
Yeah, no, totally agree.

Justin Goodman (1:33:39)
Definitely.

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:33:42)
There

has to be a balance though between just re-evaluating and then maybe freaking out and making wrong decisions suddenly. So sometimes it's good to follow plan two.

Jill Bartholomew (1:33:51)
Well, yeah, part of that's experience too, right?

Is like, you know, we've all experienced where we had that freak out moment. And at least I assume we've all had that. I have where we've had that freak out moment and made the wrong decision. And then like, you know, I think experience is recognizing when you've made the wrong decision and adjusting. that is the right decision or a less wrong decision.

Justin Goodman (1:34:15)
Well,

well, there's such a sense of spontaneity.

Wendy (1:34:18)
and learn from those wrong decisions.

Jill Bartholomew (1:34:21)
Yeah, yeah,

that's right. Learn from it. And so that next time you're in a similar situation, you can be like, hey, you know, I did this other thing and it worked out badly. Let's try something else.

Justin Goodman (1:34:32)
Well, there's such a sense of spontaneity. bet Wendy probably more than all of us can probably attest to this that, I mean, no race is ever going to be the same. you know, it's.

And that you're constantly going to be surprised by something, whether it's a turned over concrete truck in the middle of the road or the weather conditions or how you're feeling that day or meeting some incredible people along the way, learning some absolutely inspirational stories that you keep with you for the rest of your life. mean, it's truly an endurance sport that tests the mind, the will just as much as I

and get to test the body.

Jill Bartholomew (1:35:08)
I mean, but that's the point, right? We do these things because they're hard, right? You know, if it was easy, everybody would do it as kind of the colloquial saying, right? But I don't know. I find like when you have like those weird challenges that that's when we do our best. My PR 70.3 to this day continues to be Atlantic City.

Justin Goodman (1:35:10)
Yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:35:37)
when it rained the whole freaking race. Like the swim was gorgeous. The bike was torrentially raining electrical storm with sideways wind. And I was running like 85s in front and rear. So I was getting blown all over the place. So it was the only wheels I brought with me. then the run, every cloud in the sky left. And it was an Atlantic city. So if you've done.

any run at Atlantic City, know that every run on that boardwalk is like the surface of the sun.

But still, that bike, I have the QOM on the Atlantic City Expressway from that bike in the freaking rain. And it's like, why? Because I just want it to be done with.

Wendy (1:36:25)
one thing

I like to tell athletes is don't let weather or nutrition get in the way of your fitness. So if you're really prepared and really fit going into the race, prepared meaning you practice in the weather you're expecting, you practice your nutrition, just move on, adapt if something goes wrong, just learn how to adapt, just adapt to the condition and just know you're ready and you're prepared and just keep telling yourself.

Jill Bartholomew (1:36:30)
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (1:36:51)
you can do this and keep moving forward as best you can.

Jill Bartholomew (1:36:54)
I think that's great advice. I always get a little like the hair on the back of my neck up. When you talk to athletes who only train on the trainer or only are like nice weather athletes. It's like, what are you going to do when you show up and it's raining at the start line?

I read it's like, you know, I just talked about Atlantic City. I ran London Marathon a few years ago. It poured the whole race. To this day, it's my favorite marathon I've ever run, even though it was raining. But if you never train in it, then like, you know, your shoes are going to be wet. Like it's rainy out. Your shoes are going to be wet. Get used to it. But if you're not used to it and prepared for it, then you're going to have a horrible race.

Jenn (1:37:38)
Well, and to not get into your own head, right? Everyone is dealing with the exact same conditions as you. So it's just who can adapt and adjust and keep moving forward the best.

Jill Bartholomew (1:37:40)
Yeah.

Right, it's like, you know, there are some races where it's like, you're gonna lose a toenail. You know, you've got 10, how many are you gonna finish with?

So we have been chatting for a very long time. This has been a fantastic conversation. Before we wrap up, there anything we didn't cover that, as age group athletes talking to other age group athletes, you just want to make sure that people hear, especially if they're doing their first 70.3, their first Ironman.

Justin Goodman (1:38:20)
Yes, there's something I really, I'm sorry, I have to get out. This is huge. My first Iron Man, and everybody talks about the why and things like that. And that is, I think, crucial. Who's your why? What's your why? And I think that's very, important. And so you can get really hung up on that and that gets you through the day, which is beautiful. But I'll tell you, my first Iron Man, I had no idea really what I was...

Jill Bartholomew (1:38:23)
Yes.

Yeah.

Justin Goodman (1:38:45)
really in for it. And I mean, as much as I wanted to prep for it, I just couldn't get there. About half a mile from the finish line, I this guy come up out of nowhere, still to this day, don't know where he is. And he just looks at me and back then they had different colored bracelets. So if it was your first time, you could ask for a different colored bracelet and they so would identify you as a first timer. And so I had one and I was, was, was, you know, loud and proud about it. And, and so I had one, he comes up to me he says, he just looks at me and goes,

Enjoy that finish line. Enjoy that, you know? And so it stuck with me and made me come back time after time at this point, for half Ironman, full Ironman, any race, it's one of those things that there is that point where you come to the end and I can tell you, you know, having gone through it, anyone who's interested in the sport, I've said it time and time again, enjoy, enjoy that finish line. Enjoy what you worked for and, and no feeling.

Jill Bartholomew (1:39:33)
Man, there is no feeling like when your foot

hits that red carpet.

Justin Goodman (1:39:38)
There is nothing like it. So yeah, that's mine.

Jenn (1:39:41)
Yeah. I would say use the energy on the course. It's a long day and you're going to have highs. You'll have lows. There are volunteers. There are people around you. I have had many situations where I'm at a low point, but saying good job to another athlete, like you're looking good or thinking a volunteer kind of helps change your energy. So use the energy on the course to your advantage, especially when you hit those rough spots.

Jill Bartholomew (1:39:41)
Anyone else?

and provide energy to others. When you see people struggling, like we're all competing, yes, it's a race, yes, but we're all in it together too. And it's like when you see that guy who fell on the bike as like trying to get his feet moving on the run because he traveled all the way from Munich, yeah, this isn't a real story or anything.

Jenn (1:40:12)
Right, absolutely.

Justin Goodman (1:40:12)
hear.

Wendy (1:40:13)
Yeah.

Jenn (1:40:15)
Yep.

Absolutely.

Jill Bartholomew (1:40:35)
provide him the encouragement so that he gets up and gets it done. Because it helps us all.

Wendy (1:40:42)
Yeah. And I think what I wanted to say is, as a first timer, sometimes you just don't know how prepared you are until you cross the finish line. And so just really enjoy the process. The training is really important. do the event. If you don't finish, learn from it. Don't let that beat you up. Don't let that not allow you to attempt to finish again. And then as Justin mentioned, having a strong why.

I always tell people for longevity in the sport, I haven't missed a race in 33 years. You gotta love it. You gotta do what you love, love what you do. And that helps keep the Y in motion and that helps you keep focused and try new things and just really enjoying the process.

Jill Bartholomew (1:41:23)
Okay, Kamil, anything?

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:41:24)
Yes,

I'd like to follow up on what Justin said and I would tell people not only to enjoy the finish line but also the time before the race, know, setting the bike up and being there in the morning, getting ready, the slight nervousness but excitement and the mix of those two is a great feeling and that's why I do this. I love doing that.

Jill Bartholomew (1:41:43)
⁓ man.

T1 at 430 in the morning is something else.

Jenn (1:41:49)
you

Jill Bartholomew (1:41:49)
Based on the looks on everyone's face, I think we all agree with that. T1 in the morning, two hours before race start, an hour before race start, it is an energy that is different from anything else. Like you said, Kamil, everyone's nervous, but there's excitement too.

Kamil Dusejovsky (1:42:06)
And then the comparison from the morning, then to picking your bike up in the afternoon and seeing the atmosphere change. Those two moments were actually one of my favorites of the race.

Jill Bartholomew (1:42:16)
Awesome. All right. Well, thank you everyone so much. Justin, Jen, Kamil, and Wendy, thank you for coming on the show and sharing your experiences. This is age groupers talking to other age groupers about our personal experiences in our Ironman and what our takeaways are. I think it's absolutely fascinating that

You know, we've all done races. Some are earlier in our careers than others. And our experiences are really similar, but also really different at the same time, which I think just shows how individual the sport is, even though we're all doing the same course and experiencing the same conditions. So thank you very much. And for our listeners, stay tuned for episode six, which will come up next week.