Injury Prevention & Rehabilitation

Jill Bartholomew (00:00)
Hi, welcome back to another episode of the Be Fierce Multisport podcast. I'm Jill Bartholomew, head coach at Be Fierce and your host for this podcast. ⁓ Today, I'm back with Troy Theodosio, my co-host, and we're going to be talking about a number of topics, including ⁓ Ironman Texas, which is coming up this next weekend. And we have Liz DiGinto in the studio with us to talk about

physical therapy and, uh, specifically injury prevention and rehabilitation. She is my physical therapist. Uh, so, you know, I thought, you know, I spend quite a lot of time with, you know, my physical therapist and like, come on, let's be honest, right? If you're an athlete, if you say you're an athlete and you don't have a physical therapist and an orthopedist on speed dial, are you

Liz D'Ginto (00:38)
Okay. ⁓

Jill Bartholomew (00:57)
actually an athlete.

Liz D'Ginto (01:00)
That's a point.

Troy Theodosiou (01:00)
said.

Jill Bartholomew (01:01)
All right,

so on that note, where do we want to start? How about we start with Iron Man Texas? Yes. I am, I am. I'm not the only one though. And, you know, we were just looking at the forecast right before the podcast and it's not looking good. I was all prepared for a hot race, a dry race, a cold race.

Troy Theodosiou (01:10)
Yeah, that's a good starting point considering the fact that you are the one racing.

for sure.

Liz D'Ginto (01:23)
Mm.

Jill Bartholomew (01:29)
The thing I hadn't considered was a wet race. So this whole week is looking like ⁓ lightning storms out there in the woodlands, Texas. And ⁓ the good side of that maybe is like the current water temperature is apparently 78 degrees.

Liz D'Ginto (01:47)
Okay.

Jill Bartholomew (01:47)
And as we know, 76.1 is the magic number for wetsuits. And ⁓ I'd much rather wear a wetsuit if it's ⁓ close than not. ⁓

So I'm hoping that that rain brings us down a bit to under 76.1. But if not, bringing my swim skin with me, it's on the bed waiting to be packed. Because I'm not packed yet. And I'll admit to that, I'm not packed yet.

And we get on a plane at 9:11 in the morning tomorrow to head to Texas. So yeah, there's that. So I was telling you guys earlier.

Before this, was on a call, been on calls. I'm like multitasking. ⁓ I waxed my brand new bike chain while sitting here.

Troy Theodosiou (02:38)
Thankfully

this is not your first rodeo Jill.

Liz D'Ginto (02:40)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (02:41)
It is not my first rodeo.

That said, there's nothing worse than that feeling of like, oof, I haven't packed. But I got my list. It's in OneNote. I have my list. It's the same list that I used for Lake Placid. It's the same list I used for Nice. So far, it's gotten me through those. It's the same list I've used for every half I've done. The only difference is the quantities of nutrition that come are a little bit larger.

Liz D'Ginto (02:59)
There you go.

Jill Bartholomew (03:11)
but there's that

and, ⁓ you know, this time at Texas, I'm going to, got, I got these, spiffy new shirts. You like them, right? Like it's pretty cool. And, yeah, I got those because I'm going to be in the, TriDot expert coach booth. So, you know, to our listeners out there, if you're, you know, doing Ironman, Texas and, ⁓ you want to say hi, like, ⁓ you come by and, ⁓

Liz D'Ginto (03:19)
Love it.

Troy Theodosiou (03:20)
I saw that. Very cool. Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (03:39)
You know, give a wave and say, I heard your podcast.

Troy Theodosiou (03:43)
Jill, do you know what your hours will be when you'll be at the booth?

Jill Bartholomew (03:47)
⁓ I believe it's Thursday morning and Friday afternoon. I don't have them in front of me, but I think that's where it settled.

Troy Theodosiou (03:57)
Okay, well now is a good opportunity for you to follow @TheTriMom Follow Jill on Instagram and make sure you send her a message. If you're in the area, make sure that you pop down to the village and the TriDot Booth where Jill will be and be sure to say hi.

Liz D'Ginto (04:08)
you

Jill Bartholomew (04:15)
Yeah, and if you follow me during race weeks, historically you know that ⁓ I'm not shy at posting. Yeah, think at the Disney race, think my son said to me, he's like, mom, can you please stop posting? He's like, my friends are embarrassed on your behalf.

Liz D'Ginto (04:22)
Okay.

Troy Theodosiou (04:23)
Good deal.

dear. Well, it's Ironman Texas. Joel, let's cut to the chase. How are you feeling

going into race week?

Jill Bartholomew (04:43)
That's a question. Not as good as I like, but this weekend was a good weekend. Did the Disney races a couple of weeks ago and kind of did something to the piriformis at that. that's like recovered. And that was the weirdest thing. It was like before the running even started, I hurt myself. Didn't set a good stage. But this weekend.

Uh, you know, I rocked it on the bike, had two reasonably long bike rides. You know, I rode a Valley Forge mountain on Friday evening. You know, so was about, I think it was like 3000 feet total. And, uh, then we did another almost 60 miles. I think it was 50 something on Saturday. Uh, was not quite as steep on any one grade, but it was still pretty, pretty good.

Liz D'Ginto (05:36)
.

Jill Bartholomew (05:41)
And which is good. Like, you know, Texas is pretty flat. It's only like 1200 feet, I think on the, the 112 miles, which might as well be flat. And that was pretty good. I took home a new all time power output for five, five minutes. And I think it was five or six,

uh, top 10 Strava segments. So it wasn't a bad weekend. I'm feeling pretty good on the bike.

The run we'll see how we'll see how that goes yeah, my runs are my weakest of the three sports I think and My like standalone, you know marathon times around 350 I've yet to pull off less than a 430 and a full Ironman so like if we can find pull off a 430 at Texas or even a sub-5 I'd be happy

Troy Theodosiou (06:35)
And Jill, for those who haven't joined us prior to this, think what's important is to just talk about expectations ⁓ in terms of going into this race and what it is you aim to achieve here.

Jill Bartholomew (06:46)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So, uh, this race, uh, to recap had originally started as an A-Race. Um, back when I registered for this in the fall, I was thinking this would be an A-Race. You know, I already have a Kona slot, but you know, wanted to see an age group podium here. Um, or, you know, top five. My, you know, goals changed a bit, uh, in the fall I ended up getting

an injury, uh, in like November ish. And, you know, we've been in PT since then, which is why Liz is here because she's been my, my, my, uh, expert therapist since then. And, you know, made the decision over the winter that, you know, this is no longer an A race. Um, but it's still a race. I'm still going to go out and have fun and hopefully not, you know, too bad at it. Um, you know, I did 12.

Liz D'Ginto (07:21)
You

.

Jill Bartholomew (07:48)
28, 1230, somewhere in there at Lake Placid last year. It's about a half hour longer at Nice, which I think makes sense given the course. So I would love to see an under 12, which wasn't my original goal. My original goal,

Troy Theodosiou (07:51)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (08:07)
I think, was under 1130. But yeah, I can pull off an under 12, I'd be excited.

Troy Theodosiou (08:15)
Finish line first.

Jill Bartholomew (08:17)
Well, have I ever told you my race priorities? No, no. So every race has the same goals. Don't die is number one. it sounds like something that's an obvious,

Troy Theodosiou (08:24)
No.

Liz D'Ginto (08:31)
Okay.

Jill Bartholomew (08:36)
but there's enough people that take that one for granted. You got to say it. So don't die. Finish is number two. These are in priority order by the

You know, so don't die finish. Don't finish last is next. and then do better than last time. So those are always

Liz D'Ginto (08:55)
Good.

Jill Bartholomew (08:57)
my goals in every race, right? As sometimes there's another goal that's like finish an Ironman in under 12 hours. but it's, it comes back to you like, okay, like let's start with don't die and then let's cross the finish line and then

we cross the finish line, let's not be the last one across the finish line. And if we can do that, let's do better than last time.

Troy Theodosiou (09:22)
I want to add one to that list, Jill And this might be new implementation, but something that I think most will agree with. And this is not to say this might kind of just be in your subconscious, but ⁓ you've also got to enjoy yourself.

Jill Bartholomew (09:24)
⁓

Mm-hmm.

Very, that's true. Yeah, that's got to be on there. You got to have fun.

Troy Theodosiou (09:42)
You are doing what you love. You love it so much you became a coach. You transitioned from... Exactly. And I think we should never lose sight of that enjoyment element because even though they're goals, some more serious than others, I think whatever we do in life, it's important to enjoy what you're doing. And you know as well as I do that when it comes to...

Jill Bartholomew (09:44)
Hmm?

That's true. And I even had the shirt made.

Liz D'Ginto (10:06)
Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (10:12)
to all sports, to have somebody else experience that same level of joy, just from an encouraging word, or you're going through a bit of a rough patch and somebody says something or compliments you, or you know how it's really changed the dynamic of your day. And I think that's important.

Jill Bartholomew (10:31)
Oh, absolutely. And you know, one of the most powerful things to me is when your coach can say, I understand. I've been there and I've done that and it's normal. You know, I had, you know, one athlete this week, you she had a rough week last week and you know, things didn't go the way she wanted them to. And it's like, it's okay. It happens to everyone. We all have off weeks.

Liz D'Ginto (10:59)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (11:00)
You know, sometimes we, you know, I, I had this happen earlier this year, right? You know, things were going fine with the training. And then there was a week I got on the bike and like, what should normally feel easy.

Felt hard. Like my warmup pace, my warmup output on Zwift felt like a zone 4 workout as I, happens.

Troy Theodosiou (11:27)
And that's so indicative of life in and of itself. I think, you sometimes you just, you hit a wall, right? And it's just like, what should feel easy. And I think Liz, when it comes to your line of work and seeing athletes with regards to the rate at which they recover and they rehab and they progress, ⁓ what we expect isn't often the outcome. And...

Jill Bartholomew (11:30)
Mm-hmm.

Liz D'Ginto (11:46)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (11:53)
And that's indicative of life. And most of the time, we wanna see progress, we wanna feel good, we wanna be strong, but at different seasons for different reasons, ⁓ we hit these walls and it's part and parcel of what we do.

Liz D'Ginto (11:56)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (12:10)
Yeah, maybe don't use me

as an example for this one because like I'll like get to like 90 % recovered and then I'll go do a race and be like, I can't walk, fix it.

Liz D'Ginto (12:12)
I was gonna say, she's...

Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (12:20)
I was gonna say,

Liz D'Ginto (12:21)
What

Troy Theodosiou (12:21)
you're

Liz D'Ginto (12:21)
was like, yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (12:23)
super brave having Liz with us because Liz has got the freedom to now share the good, the bad and the ugly because, and you can't hide.

Jill Bartholomew (12:29)
I know, I know.

I know for the listeners I gave her full cart blunch. I'm I'm like, HIPAA out the window. go ahead, use me as an example. It's fine. You know, if I don't like it that much, I'll edit it out.

Liz D'Ginto (12:31)
That's...

Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (12:44)
Okay, well, I love your transparency and your vulnerability, ⁓ Jill and Liz. Thank you for joining us.

Liz D'Ginto (12:50)
Yeah, thank you for having me. Bravery, yeah. Being honest.

Jill Bartholomew (12:51)
You call it vulnerability. might be stupidity or like just, just being real, just being real.

Troy Theodosiou (12:55)
Bravery. Yeah,

being real. And I like to think we deal in real, which I think is important because ultimately when you're transparent and you're real, it resonates with people, like-minded people. So good for you.

Jill Bartholomew (13:11)
Yeah.

So Liz, why don't you tell us about yourself? So you and I met ⁓ and no one ever wants to meet physical therapists this way, but so you and I met because back in the fall, I was showing all the signs of a fractured femur and I'd been going to a different PT at the time. And after...

Liz D'Ginto (13:25)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jill Bartholomew (13:38)
A number of ortho visits, you know, they're, they're like, well, it's not a fractured femur. And we want you to go to this other physical therapy place. That's different than the one I've been going to you. Cause by the way, I changed my ortho too. Cause I didn't really kind of think there were, you know, it like, as an athlete, you know, you have certain expectations. It's like, you want your.

Liz D'Ginto (13:45)
Right.

Jill Bartholomew (14:05)
positions to understand you as an athlete, right? Not just you as a like mid forties female, right?

And you know, athletes, you know, we're, we're, built differently. So, you know, we met that way and you know, that was back in what, like November or something. December. Okay. Yeah.

Liz D'Ginto (14:22)
Mm-hmm. I think it was December. was November, December,

Jill Bartholomew (14:30)
And here we are in April, end of April, mid April. It's closer to the end. It's after tax day. It's closer to the end.

Liz D'Ginto (14:34)
Mm-hmm. It's good, yeah. Yeah, so since I've seen you, I would say there's been...

ups and downs, do you agree, in terms of recovery? Is that how say that? But yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (14:49)
You could say that.

Troy Theodosiou (14:52)
She's not denying it, she's smiling, which means she's

Jill Bartholomew (14:53)
Not denying it. No,

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I remember

Troy Theodosiou (14:56)
guilty as charged.

Jill Bartholomew (15:02)
Yeah, after wine. Now I think I was seeing you at wine and dine. So was like at the end of November. And you know, actually that was, that was the end of October. So, so yeah, that, that was no, maybe not definitely was seeing. Okay. So I know when I started. All right. It was before Dopey and I came home from Dopey and I was in a lot of pain. Like a lot of pain.

Liz D'Ginto (15:07)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (15:27)
which says a

lot because pain management, yeah, I was gonna say. Threshold over here, yeah.

Liz D'Ginto (15:28)
Yeah. Cause you ran through. Yeah. Where are you running on a fracture for how long? A couple months when you had that fra- yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like way back.

Jill Bartholomew (15:38)
Mm-hmm. Oh, when I had the fracture?

Oh, yeah. So, you know, I had fractured my leg in my right femur. It's a weird fracture because it wasn't a femur head. It was femur. It was a femoral shaft. And it was on the opposite side that you would normally expect it to be.

Liz D'Ginto (15:49)
Yeah.

Yeah, was like a shaft. Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (16:02)
And it kind of looked like a snap twig. we never really figured out quite how it happened.

Liz D'Ginto (16:08)
What happened? Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (16:10)
Although we think we have an idea that may not be strictly sports related, but we always be treated as if it happened, you know, as a stress injury, but we don't actually think it was. So yeah, like that was like November, 2022. I had like this sudden pain behind my knee.

Liz D'Ginto (16:16)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Right.

Jill Bartholomew (16:32)
And yeah, that was before wine and dine and I ran wine and dine. It was like super painful. ⁓ and then afterwards, you know, came back, saw an ortho and they did an MRI of my knee and said, nothing wrong with your knee. It must be IT band. So they treated my IT band and then ran Philly marathon. Same. Then treated my IT band some more, then a cortisone shot and then ran dopey.

Liz D'Ginto (17:00)
.

Jill Bartholomew (17:01)
in January and that was horribly painful but it was starting to improve by then and then ran Princess in February and right after we got back I was I came back and I said to the orthopedist I'm like can we take an MRI of the full leg

Liz D'Ginto (17:01)
Mm-hmm.

Jill Bartholomew (17:21)
And like, is where like, you know, caveat emptor buyer beware. Um, that's when we found that I had in fact had a fracture of the femur, like pretty high up is on the backside of the leg. And at that point, you know, that, that was what like mid February and it happened in early November. So all said and done, I ran.

Liz D'Ginto (17:31)
It's a long time.

Jill Bartholomew (17:48)
Philadelphia Marathon.

Disney marathon and London marathon and God only knows how many half marathons plus all the training runs. Yeah. Yeah. On a broke like an actual broken leg.

Liz D'Ginto (17:58)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. All the, yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (17:59)
was gonna say, you can't even negate all the volume that you did leading up.

Liz D'Ginto (18:08)
Right.

That goes to show too, like how resilient our bodies are and how strong like bones truly are. A lot of times we see kind of people have a certain perception of like pain, especially with spine related injuries that, you you've got the imaging done and it shows herniations all through your lumbar spine and people feel like they're like broken in their spine. You know, they're never going to be able to get past this pain, but

Jill Bartholomew (18:13)
Mm-hmm.

Liz D'Ginto (18:37)
you're a perfect case of you ran on a broken femur and you're still rehabbing it now, but it really goes to show how resilient your body can be. Especially when through that whole time you were training it, rehabbing, recovering your body, like giving yourself the right nutrients to continue being able to train and perform at such a high level. ⁓ So even though it's, yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (18:48)
Mm-hmm.

I'm totally convinced that the reason

why, cause like all of the stuff that's wrong with me is, in my right leg. Right? It's like every, like everything that we've, you know, rehabbed has been on the right side. I'm totally convinced that it's because I had that fracture and it wasn't properly rehabbed because.

Liz D'Ginto (19:04)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (19:21)
We didn't know it was a fracture. And like, we can talk about like, okay, well, like, should we have known? like, the fact was we didn't know and treated it like something it wasn't.

Liz D'Ginto (19:23)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (19:33)
You raise such an interesting point though, Liz, because how often, and I'm assuming that the answer is more often than not, but how often do you have people like Jill come in and because of tolerance and pain threshold, the condition or the injury is far worse than it should have been had it been

Liz D'Ginto (19:41)
Mm-hmm.

Troy Theodosiou (20:03)
detected earlier on.

Liz D'Ginto (20:03)
yeah. Yeah, very often I would say. A lot of ⁓ our like overuse strain type of injuries and I feel like you generally see it with higher level athletes.

I feel like, especially for me growing up playing sports, I think it's more well known now the importance of fitness and recovery and really taking care of your bodies. But I for me growing up, that wasn't really, I played ice hockey and it was just, always played, you played through injuries and you wanted to play through injuries. If someone wasn't telling you to sit out, you weren't sitting out. But I now see it, yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (20:29)
Mm-hmm.

Which, which brings up

a question. Yeah. So I'm a mom, right? I have two kids. ⁓ both are athletes. ⁓ one is a runner and performs at a pretty high level and with a lot of load, right? So like some of that load is prescribed by, by his coach. Some of that load is not prescribed by his coach because you know, he and I.

Liz D'Ginto (20:47)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's very high. Yeah.

Thanks.

Jill Bartholomew (21:06)
you know, like to race from time to time, ⁓ not each other. Cause like he is now faster than me, ⁓ on the run. Now the second, like you introduce other sports, all bets are off. ⁓ but, but in a running event, he's much faster than me. ⁓ yeah, I think, at our last event, he was waiting at the finish line is like what he literally said as I cross finish line, what took so long. Yeah. So, but like, ⁓

Liz D'Ginto (21:07)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Make him do his laundry for that.

Troy Theodosiou (21:29)
dear.

Jill Bartholomew (21:35)
Yeah, laundry, cleaning toilets, know, like what other chores? ⁓

Liz D'Ginto (21:37)
you

Troy Theodosiou (21:40)
Remind

him that you bore him. That's always a good starting point.

Liz D'Ginto (21:43)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (21:44)
Right.

Yes, yes. So anyways, as a parent, how do we recognize that our kids who are athletes and who as kids may not recognize when things are not going the way they need to, how do we recognize that it's time for them to take a day off?

Liz D'Ginto (22:04)
Yeah.

But

I think, yeah. Yeah, I think that can be tough, honestly, because kids are very resilient to pain and a lot of times maybe don't realize they're in pain or just think it's just their body sore or whatever. It can be hard to identify pain versus soreness and so on. But I think especially with sports now, they're just all year round. doesn't like baseball.

Jill Bartholomew (22:13)
or see a doctor or whatever.

Liz D'Ginto (22:37)
It used to be, I thought, more of like a spring or fall sport. It just seems like it goes all year around for kids now. So I think I'm not a parent, but if I were a parent, you know, allowing your kid to kind of like have the season of that sport and then like really take a rest from it. You know, if you're a pitcher and you're just pitching like all year long, how is that arm ever going to rest and recover? And especially in those growing ages, those bones are still developing, the muscles are still developing.

So if you're overworking your body at that age, that's just kind of like contributing to the way your body is going to develop overall. And I feel like it can lead like start at a young age, all those overuse injuries that just start to become more habitual.

Jill Bartholomew (23:18)
Yeah, I wasn't a runner when I was in school. So it's been fascinating to me as a parent watching this because in middle school, they run in the fall with cross country, but it's not really that much load. And they run in the spring with track, but again, it's not really that much load. And

Liz D'Ginto (23:26)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jill Bartholomew (23:41)
Before that, in elementary school, I had the kids involved with like soccer, other sports, over the summer, there was a track and field thing that was like a couple of days a week at the high school. And.

Liz D'Ginto (23:46)
Mm-hmm.

Jill Bartholomew (23:54)
Like, but the moment, you know, they make it to high school, it's like a completely different animal. It's like, they start with, in this case with running summer cross country, they get a week off and then cross country starts in the fall and they get two weeks off and winter track starts and they get a week off and track starts and then they get two weeks off and it repeats.

Liz D'Ginto (23:58)
It's yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Jill Bartholomew (24:18)
So

like, I'm like, on the one hand, I love the coach because I know that like, he talks a lot about like making sure that the kids are healthy and that they're not hurting themselves. And when they do get hurt, I've seen him put kids through, programs that are not as intensive.

Liz D'Ginto (24:28)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jill Bartholomew (24:36)
But

through all of that as a parent, I'm like, on the one hand, it's great watching your child progress and improve at a really remarkable pace. On the other hand, it's like, I wonder,

Liz D'Ginto (24:41)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (24:51)
how do I know when too much is too much? And what are the signs that I should be looking for to be like, hey, I see an injury brewing. Take it easy for a day or two.

Liz D'Ginto (25:03)
Yeah. Yeah. Well,

I would just say even like in terms of his performance, you know, if performance starts to lack, if they're seeming, you know, more fatigued with workouts or runs that generally would be easier, you know, starting to have soreness onset earlier in a run, certain muscle groups starting to become more aggravated. As a parent, I feel like one way to help prevent injury that you have more control over just monitoring is

Jill Bartholomew (25:21)
Mm-hmm.

Liz D'Ginto (25:33)
how much sleep they're getting a night. I mean, maybe you don't, that's what I started that with, have any kids, but you know, making sure you're getting like six, seven hours at least, like seven to nine, making sure you're hydrating, replenishing electrolytes. I feel like those are a lot of things that kind of get like lost that could easily be if they're just implemented can really help a lot in the long run.

Jill Bartholomew (25:37)
Clearly you don't have teenagers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, uh, good, all good advice. And I've seen that too, right? Like after we go out and race the, you know, like, like even these Disney races, you know, he's like, I'm just going to do a tempo race. I, all right. Yeah. I get that's what you think your tempo pace is, but it's not. And then you come back in the next two weeks, your paces went down. like, yeah, okay. The signs are there. Um, but anyways, so.

Liz D'Ginto (26:02)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (26:24)
you and I have been seeing each other for a while. Talk about like, a runner comes in as complaining of whatever, like how do you approach that? And like, what are the things that they should be doing to not have to come and see you?

Liz D'Ginto (26:27)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

So when anybody comes in a runner, anybody, obviously start with.

Jill Bartholomew (26:45)
Other than like starting with a not one of them again, not another

athlete.

Liz D'Ginto (26:51)
Um, but always like start with, you know, a comprehensive assessment, look at your general just posture, even the way kind of your body lies and then range of motion, mobility assessment, look at your strength, just kind of like statically testing. And then also I think like functionally looking at your strength as a big indicator of where any weaknesses lie, whether it's like truly a strength weakness or maybe more like mobility joint related. Um,

looking at your balance and overall stability for runners, a lot of like single leg assessments, because like we talked about even today, like you're on one leg for how, you know, so it's important to make sure you're strong in that single leg position. ⁓ and just kind of see the way you like bear your weight through your foot, where all those contact points are going. I know for you, we initially at the eval, we looked a lot at your ankle mobility.

Jill Bartholomew (27:33)
Mm-hmm.

Liz D'Ginto (27:46)
⁓ a lot of times like limitations of the ankle at the hip can contribute to symptoms overall. And I see a lot of like pelvic instability with runners, I would say a lot of strains hand. I have you right now and a couple other for hamstring strains. ⁓ but.

Troy Theodosiou (28:01)
Does that have a lot

to do with compensation, Liz? Like you're talking about like doing a lot of those isolated tests where you're looking at ⁓ instability, but also again, like given Jill has said that most of her injuries have been on one side of her body, specifically one leg, obviously compensation plays a huge role in that.

Liz D'Ginto (28:04)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And with you too, like you had that femoral fracture. a lot of this is probably a result from that and your body yet we kind of the aftermath and you're still working through it, but then it starts to affect the other parts of your body as well. Cause those compensations ⁓ growing up, were you, did you ever have like a history of injuries to that right side or was it more since that one?

Troy Theodosiou (28:33)
The aftermath. ⁓

Jill Bartholomew (28:50)
Funny you should ask that.

Liz D'Ginto (28:52)
because I find with a lot of people, like, it's always one side, whether it's the back, but all the way down, but it's like, they always had a history and not every case, but.

Jill Bartholomew (28:58)
So.

Yeah, I didn't really have a lot of injuries growing up, like of that extent, right? It's kind of the normal stuff. No, I would say like the issues with the right leg ⁓ started from a speed skating accident, which actually is what caused me to exit speed skating. I had fallen on a ⁓ rink that as it turned out didn't have enough padding.

Liz D'Ginto (29:06)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (29:30)
And I ended up in the hospital with some nerve damage in my back that caused a drop foot on the right side. So I had a like less than 1 % nerve conduction on the right leg below the knee for in that perineal nerve for year to a year and a half. It took about five years for it to come back.

And that was like with seeing a neurologist

who like seemed to enjoy putting needles in me that, know, electrodes and pushing electricity through the nerves and that was fun. But now it came back, but still to this day, like that shin muscle, you know, still gets sore very easily.

Liz D'Ginto (30:00)
Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah. I wonder if that even like if everything that's gone on with the right like kind of stemmed from weaknesses that came out of that initial injury. As you train at such a high level too, like, and you've been doing this for how long?

Troy Theodosiou (30:17)
bit.

Jill Bartholomew (30:28)
Yeah, what?

Liz D'Ginto (30:35)
Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (30:36)
Liz, talk us through

some of the common injuries that you see on a more regular basis to Jill's point specifically with runners. What are some of those common injuries that folks should look out for as a result of what you see on a daily or weekly basis?

Liz D'Ginto (30:43)
with runners.

I would say low back pain, SI joint, kind of going along with that, like pelvic instability, find in that, but that's not necessarily why they're coming. And then a lot of like just strain, hamstring strain, some hip flexors.

Jill Bartholomew (31:10)
All of

our listeners who are runners now are like, yeah, my back hurts. Yeah. Yeah, my hamstrings.

Liz D'Ginto (31:14)
Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (31:15)
It's funny how when she

says it automatically, you start feeling the discomfort. Yeah, that's your sign that you should probably go get that looked at, right? Like we kind of talked about telltale signs. And I think one of the most important things that we didn't mention is the fact that our ability to be in tune with our bodies, i.e. listening, because profoundly we have two ears, one mouth and.

Liz D'Ginto (31:17)
You're like, yeah, that hurts. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (31:19)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Liz D'Ginto (31:24)
You

Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (31:32)
Mm-hmm.

Liz D'Ginto (31:40)
Mm.

Troy Theodosiou (31:45)
We listen and we don't always listen well when it comes to our bodies. So there's a little light going off and the alarm you only hear when you're in excruciating pain. It's been going off for the last several weeks. We only starting to pay attention to Liz's point when it's a little late in terms of like acknowledging that there's something wrong.

Liz D'Ginto (31:49)
Yeah.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (32:08)
Yeah,

mean, like one of the big things I had to learn and Troy, I'm sure you're the same way and others is like the different and I now say it to people is like, learn the difference between discomfort and pain because like discomfort is expected. Pain should not be happening.

Troy Theodosiou (32:22)
Yes.

Liz D'Ginto (32:22)
Yeah.

Right. Mm-hmm. I was just gonna say, I was gonna, yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (32:31)
And I think Liz will endorse what I say with regards to don't be too quick to dismiss. ⁓ I'm very pro using Google, but Google doesn't replace, and I'm saying

Jill Bartholomew (32:46)
Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (32:49)
this intentionally because Google doesn't replace Liz's expertise. The years she spent.

Liz D'Ginto (32:52)
Yeah.

Mm.

Troy Theodosiou (32:59)
studying and more importantly, the people and the athletes that she diagnoses certain injuries, runs through these various assessments. She's been, it's kind of like a craftsman. ⁓ Who better knows the craft than the craftsman? And I think that's what's important to stress here is that, you know, as much as we like to think that we are all knowing, we're not.

Liz D'Ginto (33:07)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm hmm. Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (33:29)
In this case, if you feel that something is wrong or is not firing the way it should, or you're not feeling a certain way, nobody knows you better than you know yourself. But when it comes to you listening to your body, go and see somebody who has the expertise and knowledge to

Liz D'Ginto (33:29)
Mm hmm.

Troy Theodosiou (33:50)
make an informed decision with regards to your state of being. Like, yes, this consultation was warranted or,

Liz D'Ginto (33:50)
Right.

Troy Theodosiou (33:59)
You know what, you need a little bit of rest is what you need or I can give you some exercises or some recommendations, don't allow yourself to be led by an expert and don't always be

too quick to jump to Dr. Google.

Liz D'Ginto (34:20)
Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say I, I get that a lot, a patient will come in and say like, having so and so pain, I started feeling a little bit, or I googled, you know, did a couple exercises that I saw on Google for like low back pain or something. And then I thought I was getting better and then all of sudden started to come back. So then I decided I should probably go get it checked out. But if you kind of skip that,

Jill Bartholomew (34:21)
Yeah.

Liz D'Ginto (34:45)
Sometimes that's like four to six weeks that people kind of waste thinking that, you know, they found a solution online and it got better. But then that's time too, that your body could have been healing and recovering the proper way. it's, you know, you could be doing more damage than good. And a lot of the stuff online, when you look it up, it's just very general, like low back pain. But when you go to see a doctor or physical therapist, they're going to look more at the whole body image. you might be having low back pain or knee pain, but it could really be coming.

structurally somewhere else in your body, like there's more to the story than just low back pain and it can be treated a bunch of different ways depending on that each individual and their needs.

Troy Theodosiou (35:22)
But to that point, Jill, that was exactly where you found yourself because the source was incorrectly diagnosed, you were treating the wrong thing. So.

Jill Bartholomew (35:30)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Although,

except this time it was, you know, not me using Dr. Google, was me using like a board certified doctor who still got it wrong. Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (35:39)
No, no, get that. But what I'm saying is Liz

Liz D'Ginto (35:40)
Bye.

Troy Theodosiou (35:44)
raises a really good point because often

Liz is responsible for helping you find the source, the root cause of the issue, where I feel like if you, so often you end up on this wild goose chase and you're kind of, you're treating the symptom, you're not treating the root cause.

Jill Bartholomew (35:54)
Mm-hmm.

Liz D'Ginto (35:54)
Yeah.

Yeah. ⁓

Troy Theodosiou (36:08)
And so you're taking one step forward, but ten back.

Jill Bartholomew (36:11)
Mm-hmm.

So a real life example here, ⁓ one of the guys that runs with us

in Florida, ⁓ I think Troy, we talked about him in another episode. Yeah, he got some shin pain in one of the runs and it continued.

And it's progressively gotten worse, right? And it's on one side, he's fairly confident that it's like actual shin splints, right? Versus like, my shin sore today. ⁓ So like Liz, if someone like this guy came in and is like, my God, my shin hurts so bad I can hardly walk. How would you approach that? If you were him or treating him, what would you tell him to do?

Liz D'Ginto (37:06)
I mean, I would do my own assessment, like range of motion strength, see him weight bearing, not weight bearing, maybe see how he runs, like see if he can tolerate, but if it's too painful, not gonna do that. But if I...

Jill Bartholomew (37:10)
Hmm.

Liz D'Ginto (37:18)
be concerned of a stress fracture or anything, I would just refer him out to have imaging before I would, wouldn't treat if I think that there's a chance of that. But if I can differentiate enough between, it's more muscular or it's a bony pathology risk of a fracture, then if I feel like it's appropriate to treat, then I would go from there. But you have to be careful in some of those cases where there's a chance that it could be a fracture. You don't want to.

Jill Bartholomew (37:45)
Mm-hmm.

Liz D'Ginto (37:46)
obviously step in and start treating and make matters worse or potentially put them at risk of hurting themselves further.

Jill Bartholomew (37:53)
And then you have folks like me who had a fracture and now like, now like every time you have a pain in your leg, you're like, my God, is my leg broken again? It's like that fear that never goes away. Yeah.

Liz D'Ginto (37:56)
and ran. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, and that's good. That's, that's psychological. Yeah, yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (38:08)
Here's a good question that I wanna ask because I think this is, whilst we on this topic, I think it's important to consult an expert. Jill's a coach, I'm a coach. Let's talk about, and we're gonna take this from your standpoint, how important is recovery time?

Liz D'Ginto (38:30)
I think it's very important. think it's something, like I said, growing up, there was no emphasis on it. Maybe in college, when you're playing in college, that's when we started working on it. ⁓ But I think it makes a big difference in your ability to go and perform that next time. If you don't recover from prior, how are you able to go out and perform again? ⁓ So I think it's a big component of.

Jill Bartholomew (38:49)
Mm-hmm.

Liz D'Ginto (38:57)
athletes and their ability to perform to their best ability.

Troy Theodosiou (39:00)
Yeah, I just, asked that question because I think, Jill, has there ever been a race where you've been or you've spoken to another athlete and you've asked them genuinely, when was the last time you took a break? Like, what did your recovery look like? Nine times out of 10, nine times out of 10, athletes, especially triathletes will talk about active recovery. And,

Jill Bartholomew (39:15)
out.

Liz D'Ginto (39:25)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (39:25)
Mm-hmm.

Troy Theodosiou (39:27)
and they cannot give, they cannot reference when they actually took time off.

Liz D'Ginto (39:31)
Okay.

Jill Bartholomew (39:33)
Well, part of it's also like there's a lot of literature out there that directs us as in triathlon specific books that directs us towards ⁓ active recovery and that active recovery isn't sitting on a couch. It's doing less and with a lower intensity in a unprogrammed kind

Troy Theodosiou (39:52)
Sure. Yes.

Jill Bartholomew (40:00)
of way.

Troy Theodosiou (40:01)
Mm-hmm.

Jill Bartholomew (40:02)
And so like for me, you those are the days that like I'll go out and ride with my kids and whatnot versus like sitting on the couch watching the latest episode of Outlander with, you know, bagged potato chips or whatever. ⁓ I mean, that's never happened before. yeah, yeah, I just made

Troy Theodosiou (40:09)
Mm-hmm.

This is in Jill's wild imagination. Folks, this is not real. Yeah,

Liz D'Ginto (40:27)
Yeah

Jill Bartholomew (40:29)
that up out of nowhere.

Troy Theodosiou (40:30)
I was gonna say that was very far-fetched.

Jill Bartholomew (40:31)
Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

is there, is there show with that title? I don't know. I've never heard of it before. ⁓

Troy Theodosiou (40:37)
I don't know.

You had Liz and I both stumped on that one, Joel, but...

Jill Bartholomew (40:41)
Yeah,

yeah, yeah. The looks on your face. But no, mean, that's like what's been espoused to us for many forums. But there's competing thoughts. I'm aware of that, of like, A rest day means no strenuous activity, period. And so in my own training plans that I give my athletes, there is a unprogrammed day in there. But when they ask me, what should I be doing that day? I'm like,

Nothing hard. It's kind of my answer.

Troy Theodosiou (41:14)
But that's so important though, Jill, in terms of

Liz D'Ginto (41:15)
I yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (41:17)
being compliant to a regime, it's so important to be cognizant of, actually, we always want to achieve and we want to perform at our best and we want to execute, but those hard training days that require significant output are as important as

Jill Bartholomew (41:21)
Mm-hmm.

Liz D'Ginto (41:33)
you

Troy Theodosiou (41:42)
for you when as a coach you prescribe, you know, a rest day or recovery for you to actually exceed

Jill Bartholomew (41:48)
Mm-hmm.

Troy Theodosiou (41:54)
and execute on those days as well as the days that count. They count just as much. They just as important.

Jill Bartholomew (42:01)
for sure. So like, for me personally, my, and I think a lot of athletes have a similar schedule, you know, may I'm self-employed today, right? ⁓ But my, my hard activities, my long stuff, the endurance stuff.

Um, this stuff that like, you, you kind of want to like lay down and close your eyes in a field halfway through. Um, you know, those are all on weekends, right? You know, it's like Saturday is my, my long bike day, which might some days be two hours. might some days be six hours, right? And Sundays is the long run day. And it's the same thing. It's like, well, it might be marathon pace for two hours. It might be, you know,

Liz D'Ginto (42:24)
No.

Jill Bartholomew (42:50)
half

marathon pace for three hours. Or it might be zone four for whatever, or zone two for whatever. But then, you know, Monday, you've got all that training load from the whole week. And Monday is like the D-load day.

And of course then you see, you know, Tridot, Training Peaks, Strava, wherever you're looking at your metrics, you see it go backwards. Um, I kind of have to ignore that, but yeah, Garmin I think currently tells me I need something like 174 hours of recovery. Garmin is wrong.

Liz D'Ginto (43:12)
Okay.

Girl.

Troy Theodosiou (43:29)
It's funny because if you, so much of what we talk about has such a large toll psychologically. And Liz, I think you getting through, especially when it comes to high-performing athletes, I think the biggest struggle you have is speaking

into breaking down some of those thought patterns because it's a case of like, this is what I need you to do in order to get better.

Liz D'Ginto (43:54)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. it can be. Yeah. Well, and just kind of the like you talked about, like pain psychologically, how that that can be hard to not like alter, but kind of like influence in someone. You never want to discredit somebody's pain. And that's never what we're trying to do. But there's a lot.

Troy Theodosiou (44:01)
Do want to talk about that?

Liz D'Ginto (44:19)
I feel like it was incorporated more in school for me. Like think it's a newer thing that's becoming more well known in the fitness industry and just health industry in general, kind of like that psychosocial aspect of pain. But it can be really hard to break through with people and especially patients with chronic pain, because that's just all that they've kind of become used to. And you're so used to feeling poorly and having such a high threshold of pain that you feel like you're never not going to have it.

Um, and that's what I was kind of mentioning before with your fracture, how it was amazing. You able to train at such a high level and run on it for as long as you did. Cause that just goes to show like how resilient our bodies truly are. Just you shouldn't have been doing all that, but. Right.

Jill Bartholomew (45:03)
Well, right. But at the time, right. It's like,

um, I remember distinctly asking this question a few times, So when the orthopedist said, is IT Band pain, they're like, well, you know, you know, refer you to, to, you know, PT. And I went to the local PT guy.

Liz D'Ginto (45:14)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (45:22)
You know, remember asking him, said, okay, so like, how long is this going to take? And I know, like for everyone in the medical profession, like that's like the hardest, you know, question to answer, right? Because there is no good answer.

Troy Theodosiou (45:32)
the worst question, because we want it done tomorrow,

Liz D'Ginto (45:32)
I never give an answer. I'm not putting a date on it.

Yeah, I'm not giving you a date. There's so much that goes into it. Like, you know.

Troy Theodosiou (45:36)
yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (45:38)
Right. Right. And

Troy Theodosiou (45:39)
Because you don't have a magic wand. Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (45:42)
Right, and I'm like, okay,

so on average, how long does it take someone my age, gender, whatever, for it to heal? And the answer is magically always six weeks. I love it. It's like everything takes six weeks to heal. And I'm like, okay, well, like...

Liz D'Ginto (45:49)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (46:04)
Yeah, I'm a runner. have this event coming up. And at the time I was training for a London marathon, which, you one was my first six star marathon. And,

Liz D'Ginto (46:09)
Mm.

Jill Bartholomew (46:15)
relatively hard to get into, especially as an American, right? it's like fractions of a percent of people who apply get in and I got in that year and like that, you know, I'm like, okay, well, how do we run this? And his answer was, well, I mean, you can keep running, but it's not going to heal. He's like, and actually what he says, he's like, it'll just heal more slowly.

Liz D'Ginto (46:21)
Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (46:36)
story.

Jill Bartholomew (46:41)
And I'm like, okay, okay.

And so it is ran on a marathon, you know, ran the marathons up to London. And then we took the next eight weeks off, like flat out cold, nothing off. ⁓ it just so happened I had a trip to India in the middle there. So it worked out. It's like, there's nothing like, like, well, you know, it's like, there's no better way in my mind to, ⁓ like derail your training plan than going to a foreign country.

Liz D'Ginto (46:43)
Plan more trips. ⁓

Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (47:12)
that is like one of those places where, the company you work for doesn't allow you to leave the hotel without an escort. Right? It's like, you know, the, I've worked for, you know, I've been to India many times and both companies I was there on behalf of, both had the same policy, right? It's like, you know, it's one of those countries, it's different enough, especially as a woman, they're like,

Liz D'Ginto (47:23)
Wow. Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (47:34)
Good reason. Yeah.

Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (47:40)
thou shalt not leave unaccompanied. Right. It's like, okay, well, what does the hotel have? Didn't have any treadmills, didn't have bikes, didn't have a pool. So it was like, all right. So what do you do? ⁓ no, no, no. Different season of my life and, ⁓ yeah, different country and just one more thing to deal with. So no.

Liz D'Ginto (47:43)
Yeah.

You didn't bring your bike?

Troy Theodosiou (47:54)
Different season of their life.

Liz D'Ginto (47:55)
different. ⁓

Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (48:06)
Knowing Jill, she was probably up and down the stairwell, the fire escape or something. Trust me, she was doing something, created dumbbells

Liz D'Ginto (48:09)
Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (48:13)
out of like water cans or who knows.

Liz D'Ginto (48:15)
you

Jill Bartholomew (48:16)
I mean, I mean, we may

have gone like, you know, dancing at the club or something, but I mean, we'll not talk about that.

Liz D'Ginto (48:18)
you

Troy Theodosiou (48:22)
There you go.

Liz D'Ginto (48:23)
There you go.

Troy Theodosiou (48:26)
Well,

let's transition a little bit, Jill. Let's talk about, to your point, somebody who comes in with an injury. What are, know, post-assessment, what are some of those first steps to embarking on rehabilitation?

Jill Bartholomew (48:35)
Mm-hmm.

Liz D'Ginto (48:44)
So again, in PT, I always say it depends on what's just about anything, but it does depend on a yes. No, but yeah, yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (48:50)
Sure. Case by case, not a one size fits all.

Jill Bartholomew (48:51)
So you can't even get a straight answer out of her on a hypothetical.

Troy Theodosiou (48:55)
No, but I appreciate that because it

is so different person to person. And even if you and I are struggling with the same injury, she's gonna treat us completely differently.

Liz D'Ginto (49:00)
Yeah, person to person. I was going to say, yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (49:04)
So,

if I was coming in or didn't have the, benefit of having like a therapist, what could someone expect as like, the types of things that like someone comes in with, a strained muscle, like, what are the types of things that they would expect to need to do to kind of rehab that and like,

Liz D'Ginto (49:17)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (49:23)
you know, if someone's prone to that, like where are the types of things they can do to, to minimize? Cause I know like we can't really fully prevent it without stopping the activity that caused it, but like, are the types of things that people can do to kind of minimize the probability of it happening again?

Liz D'Ginto (49:29)
The rest. Yeah.

So I would say a big component of what we like to do at Motive is always incorporating some type of manual therapy, whether it's soft tissue work with our hands, the grasping devices, or I like to use copying a lot, especially on you. ⁓ There's different like myofascial release techniques that you can do.

Jill Bartholomew (49:58)
You don't say.

Liz D'Ginto (50:07)
for individuals at home doing it, using a foam roller, theragun, those are great options to use at home. But I like to typically start sessions with that to kind of loosen up the tissue, bring more blood flow to the area circulation, and that just kind of helps the tissue be ready to be loaded with the exercises. You go in to, you you never exercise just going in cold. You always want to do some type of a warmup. ⁓

I generally say a dynamic warm up to start and then kind of warming up that tissue itself. So with that soft tissue, the grass thin, and that'll just help kind of loosen things up, get it ready to go.

Jill Bartholomew (50:43)
And for those listening who don't know what grass-intercupping is, could you describe those?

Liz D'Ginto (50:49)
Yeah, so cupping, that's what I like to do a lot with Jill, she loves it. ⁓

Jill Bartholomew (50:56)
Love is such a strong word.

Troy Theodosiou (50:57)
I was gonna say, this sounds like a

love hate relationship. You are saying one thing and Joel's expression says another.

Jill Bartholomew (51:00)
You

Liz D'Ginto (51:03)
Yeah, it's a love hate. But it's basically, it's just another modality that improves circulation, brings blood flow to the area. So you're using the suctioning. So it's kind of like removing the skin up from the tissue. And then that allows the blood to flow more freely. I like to do it dynamically. So that's where I'll like move the cup on top of skin. That's probably, that's the worst part. And then, yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (51:27)
That's the fun part. That's the really fun part, especially

when the skin stretches before it starts moving.

Liz D'Ginto (51:36)
Yeah. But so I have her start just statically, I just put the cups on, they sit for a second or two. Then we do movement with cupping. So that's where she does an active movement with whatever activating the muscle that the cups are over. So put over her quads, so I'll her do knee extensions and then squats with the cups on. So when you when you do it that way, and you put the cups on in

Jill Bartholomew (51:37)
Yeah.

See, it's not

me and it's not just me. Do see that the look he gave? He's like imagining how it would feel and he's like, my god, she makes you do this like twice a week.

Troy Theodosiou (52:04)
No, I got imagery. Yes. No, Zach, wow. No, well, at least I

Liz D'Ginto (52:05)
It doesn't, well, this, because you

put, you put the cups on when the muscle's in like a shortened position too. So then you're like fully stretching it, like elongating when you're going through the movement. So that makes it more uncomfortable probably too. But then I finish it with the dynamic cupping. So when she's actively doing the movement, those muscles are able to like move more freely.

Troy Theodosiou (52:12)
know she's legit.

Liz D'Ginto (52:33)
under like actively under the tissue being pulled up and then dynamically kind of moving the fascia, the skin, the fat, all that over top. So it's really improving that mobility of the, all the tissue underlying the skin muscles, all that. And then we normally followed up with some mobility drills. So whatever you were going for, I think it's always good to include a level of like ankle and hip mobility. And then some like thoracolumbar.

Cause any, when you're running, you're really using all parts of your body. So you, don't just want to go in with like just having good ankle mobility. want everything from top to bottom to be nice and loose. ⁓ and then we'll go through some general strengthening. I think it's always good to incorporate stability exercises, especially for runners, cause that's a big component of what you're doing when you're running. ⁓

Jill Bartholomew (53:23)
Yeah. And

like early on, one of the things you said to me is like, wow, your right ankle is less mobility and strength than your left. And we worked, we worked on that a bit. It's improved, right?

Liz D'Ginto (53:31)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

But

going all the way back to like that initial, that drop foot, that all kind of makes sense, you know, that it over years that it's kind of like compounded.

Jill Bartholomew (53:43)
Yeah,

Troy Theodosiou (53:46)
and Joe in.

Jill Bartholomew (53:46)
And that's what caused me to go out and get that gibbered, gibboard thing, right? It looks like an oversized skateboard or snowboard with a strap pulled between the two ends. It's a line.

Liz D'Ginto (53:51)
Oh yeah. But yeah. It's like I was bored. Yeah. Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (54:00)
Okay, yes, yes, Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (54:08)
And, you know, Troy, I don't know if you saw my, my video that I put up on Facebook and Instagram about that, but like, that's what, what caused me to bias. It's like, and what was happening was because of that, when I was getting fatigued, my right foot would turn out as I ran and you could see it, like even on the soles of my shoes, like the left foot would be pretty good. And the right foot would like have this like kind of turnout. And as the shoes wore.

Troy Theodosiou (54:14)
I liked it.

Liz D'Ginto (54:16)
out.

Jill Bartholomew (54:38)
it got harder to kind of pull it back. And now I have noticed like the last few rounds I've done, the distance runs,

⁓ it's still happening, you know, a little bit, but as much less than it was.

Liz D'Ginto (54:51)
Okay.

Troy Theodosiou (54:52)
What I wanted

to say, Joe, like jokes aside, and as I had imagery in my mind with regards to some of these techniques that Liz was describing that your sessions consist of, the reason that you're such a good customer and the fact that you're going back is because in spite of the discomfort, clearly what Liz is doing in terms of the techniques that she's using on you, they're working. So, you know, there's...

Jill Bartholomew (55:18)
Yes, despite

me every day telling her that I like her a little bit less than I did before.

Liz D'Ginto (55:20)
Mm.

Troy Theodosiou (55:24)
But you know what, Jill's obviously an engineer amongst many others, hyper analytical and just extremely smart. But Liz, like, that aside, let's talk about some of these techniques that you referenced. You spoke about manual therapy, cupping. Like,

what's so exciting to me in this day and age is how things are progressing. Artificial intelligence amongst many others, but.

In terms of these techniques that you've adopted, you're implementing, what do you see to be the most successful technique with regards to, like is there any one technique specifically? Because I know there's ultrasound, there's obviously red light

Liz D'Ginto (56:09)
Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (56:10)
therapy, there's so many, like what have you seen the most success with? I know that's a hard question, it's like it's loaded, but at the same time,

Liz D'Ginto (56:14)
That's a good question. Yeah. Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (56:19)
We've seen so many things come to market and there's so many different techniques and methodology. It's like, you know, what's coming from an expert? Like what is legitimate and what's not? Because there's obviously a lot of gimmicks.

Liz D'Ginto (56:23)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I think honestly, I think a lot of it is specific to each patient and kind of like their buy into it. Not to say that like one treatments more legitimate than the other, but copying might work great with one person. And another person could have had a horrible experience with it in the past and whether or not it truly helped them or not, they're never going to like it again. Same thing with ultrasound, I kind of learned it is mixed.

Troy Theodosiou (56:38)
Yeah.

Liz D'Ginto (57:01)
mixed research to support it. I personally don't generally use it with patients, but I know therapists that do use it for like plantar fasciitis, they'll use it for lateral apkondylitis, a certain diagnosis ⁓ in conjunction with electrical stimulation and they have good outcomes with it. But whether that's patient buy-in to it or it's truly like therapeutic, I don't know. But a lot of it, a lot of PT is patient buy-in and

you know, how they come out of feeling from the session, do they come out feeling better than maybe they'll associate less pain with those modalities that were used, the exercises that were used. ⁓ Not to say that, you know, it's not them actually, the modalities themselves giving the benefit, but I think it is a lot of like how a patient perceives that it helped them. So that's kind of not a great answer for you, but yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (57:52)
that's fair, that's a great answer. No, I appreciate that. I do, because it excites me, because there's

Jill Bartholomew (57:55)
It.

Troy Theodosiou (57:59)
obviously a lot on the market. ⁓ And I think, again, that's where trusting an expert who knows what she's doing, it pays. And I think so often, Joel, I think this will resonate with you, because everything we do on a sporting front costs money, right? Like everything costs, right? And it's just like,

Jill Bartholomew (58:01)
Mm-hmm.

Liz D'Ginto (58:02)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (58:21)
So often you can be penny wise pound foolish.

Liz D'Ginto (58:21)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (58:22)
Yeah, and we somehow chose

an exceptionally expensive sport, right? Not just in the equipment, but the toll it takes.

Liz D'Ginto (58:25)
Right. Expensive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (58:27)
Yeah.

But it is what it is. You can choose to spend money on your equipment and buy really good equipment, but if you're not investing in your recovery and your rehab, what good is the money spent on having all the gear?

Jill Bartholomew (58:37)
Mm-hmm.

Liz D'Ginto (58:37)
Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (58:47)
Well,

I mean, you know what they say. The best day is new bike day. But the second best day is the day that you invest in the engine.

Troy Theodosiou (59:00)
1000 % Joel, that is, Yeah, I mean, until they get the first scratch and then you have a meltdown and you realize like, this is, it's so temporary. The minute you do your first ride, you realize that there's a scratch or a ding or a dent or something and your prize position is just, I don't know, there's like, there's a whole lot of hurt and pain.

Liz D'Ginto (59:01)
Yeah, yeah, I would, I would agree with that.

Jill Bartholomew (59:04)
But new bikes are still fun to go.

Liz D'Ginto (59:10)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (59:13)
Man, my,

Liz D'Ginto (59:16)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (59:19)
Yeah

Liz D'Ginto (59:19)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (59:27)
You know, on my speed concept, you know, it's, it's two years old and it's got such a pretty paint job. Right. I mean, Troy, you've seen it. It's super pretty. Right. But like it's starting to get the chips. Right. And like the base bar, like right smack in the middle, in front of the stem, it's got like this little rock chip.

Troy Theodosiou (59:39)
I won't argue.

⁓ see?

Liz D'Ginto (59:48)
That's what it is. Oh no, you need a new one.

Troy Theodosiou (59:49)
See?

Yeah. Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (59:53)
I can't afford a new one. These things,

Liz D'Ginto (59:54)
Ha

ha!

Jill Bartholomew (59:55)
these things cost as much as like a used car, you know, they, in fact, I think my bike costs more than my first car did. And, and then you invest so much in, the maintenance and upkeep over time, but yeah. And then like in the back on the fork, you know, there, you know, from the chain and whatnot, there's crazy in the paint and chips. And it's like, man.

Troy Theodosiou (59:58)
They do.

Yeah, it's true.

Liz D'Ginto (1:00:17)
Mm-hmm.

you

⁓

Troy Theodosiou (1:00:22)
Jill, I think that has to be the biggest takeaway. I think obviously like,

know, to, no, it's to reinforce the fact and reinforce how important taking your, whether it's preventative or just being proactive with regards to your recovery, your rehabilitation. I mean, it's so, so important. And negating that and looking to take like,

Jill Bartholomew (1:00:26)
that we need a new bike day.

Troy Theodosiou (1:00:52)
quick fixes or trying to bypass what it is that Liz is trying to help yourself and many others, myself included, achieve.

Jill Bartholomew (1:00:59)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

How did we start before we hit the record button? Did you have a thing around your rear to rehab it?

Troy Theodosiou (1:01:07)
where we... Yeah, I did. I was quietly

sitting with a ice belt on and I didn't even touch on that because, you know, Liz...

Jill Bartholomew (1:01:18)
See, you said

the way you said it again, it still sounds like aspil.

Liz D'Ginto (1:01:22)
heard

ice both times. I heard the belt, so I knew what he was saying.

Troy Theodosiou (1:01:23)
Ice, ice belt, Jill's, Jill, okay. Okay,

Jill Bartholomew (1:01:25)
That's better. That's better.

Troy Theodosiou (1:01:28)
well, trust the expert and I've obviously got an accent, so I will lean in on the ice. But I mean, that's profound in and of itself, right? Because if I talk to our expert on the panel today and I say to Liz, how important is ice? I think people really underestimate how important ice is when it comes to injury prevention and rehabilitation.

Liz D'Ginto (1:01:32)
you

Jill Bartholomew (1:01:35)
Yeah.

Liz D'Ginto (1:01:47)
Yeah.

Yeah, think it's in, yeah, for any modality like ice or heat, I think they can play really big roles as long as they're kind of like used correctly, not overused. Same thing with STEM, anytime you kind of like overuse any stimulus, whether it's heat, ice, electrical stimulation, your body will start to accommodate to and it's not going to have the same effect. But knowing when to use it and how long to use it for can play a big role in your ability to control that inflammation after.

Troy Theodosiou (1:01:52)
Do want to chime in on that?

Liz D'Ginto (1:02:22)
after workouts and after runs and really help speed up the recovery process.

Jill Bartholomew (1:02:27)
So two really popular things right now, well, three, right? You got the percussion guns, like Theragun, Hyper Ice, and there's like 50 other brands. They seem useful, everybody uses them, but probably everybody uses them wrong, I would suppose.

Liz D'Ginto (1:02:35)
Mm.

Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:02:51)
⁓ the other, right. So like ice baths, you see the ads all over the place and you know, probably celebrities, social media, you show up to different events. A lot of them have vendors. I have one, you he showed up to an event. It was a, the half, half Ironman and Chattanooga. And there's the, the Orca guy and, like, woo, give you a big discount. And yeah, it keeps, it does keep the water cold. ⁓

Troy Theodosiou (1:02:57)
celebrities, social media, that was a big trend, yeah.

Liz D'Ginto (1:03:00)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:03:19)
And then like the, you know, consumer grade STEM stuff, which is pretty readily available, though expensive. Um, like, do you think that like someone who's going out and running 150 miles a week should be throwing themselves in an ice bath, right? Like right now the conventional wisdom is. Yeah, they should.

Liz D'Ginto (1:03:25)
Mm.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of therapeutic benefits to the ice baths. I don't think...

Jill Bartholomew (1:03:54)
So,

to be clear, they suck.

Liz D'Ginto (1:04:01)
what ice bath? Like physically going into them? No, have, I, I, we used to have to go from heart to cold in college and I hated it. They gave us little like little foot socks, little toe socks. It was horrible.

Jill Bartholomew (1:04:02)
absolutely. Like if you've never sat in one, like it takes your breath away.

yeah.

I had to buy the,

I had to buy those cause my feet were getting so cold that they would like, like the limiting factor of how much time I could spend in was my tolerance for my feet feeling like they were on fire. It was that cold. And that, and that was like, you know, the temperature of the water, it wasn't, it wasn't that cold. was like 42 degrees or something.

Liz D'Ginto (1:04:17)
Yeah, it helps.

Yeah, yeah, it's cool, yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (1:04:26)
It was that cold?

Liz D'Ginto (1:04:34)
Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (1:04:35)
Have you done cryotherapy,

Jill Bartholomew (1:04:38)
⁓ no, that sounds cold.

Troy Theodosiou (1:04:40)
Ask Elizabeth about cryotherapy.

Liz D'Ginto (1:04:41)
It's...

Jill Bartholomew (1:04:42)
Why don't you? She's standing right there.

Troy Theodosiou (1:04:44)
I've done it. Trust me, I've been there, done that, the t-shirt. You talk about cold? Cryotherapy

Jill Bartholomew (1:04:49)
Mm-hmm.

Liz D'Ginto (1:04:49)
God, Steve.

Troy Theodosiou (1:04:52)
is a whole nother ball game. I've done it, I...

Liz D'Ginto (1:04:54)
Did you feel

like it was beneficial when you did the cryo?

Troy Theodosiou (1:04:58)
I mean, it was numbing to the bone, like indescribably cold. I've done an ice bath and when I try and compare it to that of cryotherapy, there's no comparison.

Jill Bartholomew (1:05:01)
Yeah.

Liz D'Ginto (1:05:01)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah. And the ice bath, you can control too. I feel like you can still get the same effect. You don't have to make it like Arctic cold, know, Titanic kind of cold. But I feel like you make it cold enough so that it kind of shocks the system. That's the whole idea of it. then, yeah, I mean, some people sit in it for a minute, three minutes. I think 30 seconds is good. Get the drop down of what you're trying to do and then you move on.

Jill Bartholomew (1:05:32)
See, see everything

I read says like, you know, start at 30 seconds and work your way up to like five to seven minutes, right?

Liz D'Ginto (1:05:40)
Yeah.

I don't know if you truly, I haven't done enough like research on the actual data of it, but I feel like you still are getting some therapeutic benefit from even just 30 seconds. I don't think you need to be in there for five minutes to get the full effect of it. think it'll still kind of help like drop those cortisol. Yeah, yeah, that's what's gonna happen. But I think you'll still get benefit from doing even just like little bits of it.

Troy Theodosiou (1:06:00)
to become a nice block.

Jill Bartholomew (1:06:08)
So I'm so bad, have ours out on the patio in the back and the summer. yeah, yeah, yeah.

Liz D'Ginto (1:06:13)
you have one? I don't think I knew that.

Troy Theodosiou (1:06:15)
Jill's got a

lot of tools. The rollers you might've seen on social media, but she's got every tool under the sun.

Liz D'Ginto (1:06:19)
I see. Yeah, yeah. ⁓

Jill Bartholomew (1:06:22)
don't know about that. But no, no, I did buy one.

Troy Theodosiou (1:06:24)
Okay, won't, tell, we, Jill's, she's, she's

well equipped. Let's, let's just put it that way.

Liz D'Ginto (1:06:33)
Yeah. Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (1:06:33)
It pays to be prepared. Jill, there's the smile. Now there's the

Jill Bartholomew (1:06:36)
It pays to be prepared.

Troy Theodosiou (1:06:38)
honesty coming through, Jill.

Jill Bartholomew (1:06:38)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I have an ice bath. I have one of the Orca ones because, they're the 70.3 Chattanooga last year and, you know, I bought into it and, you know, so it's sitting out. Well, you know, like most of them, you know, like a bin that you put ice in and this one has like, you know, a chiller that sits next to it and, you it's pain in the rump, but it does work.

Liz D'Ginto (1:06:52)
Okay.

I

Jill Bartholomew (1:07:05)
And it works well. Getting the air out of the hoses though, like massive pain in the butt. But yeah, so it would be like 95 degrees outside and dipping into this like 40 degree water. I'll get in and I'll take my phone and

Liz D'Ginto (1:07:14)
felt good.

Jill Bartholomew (1:07:26)
set the timer. It's like, your goal today is 90 seconds.

Liz D'Ginto (1:07:28)
Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (1:07:33)
There you go.

Jill Bartholomew (1:07:34)
But I ended up buying like the little, ⁓ the winter booties, the like wetsuit booties from

Zoot. had some sale and I'm like, yeah, I'll jump on that. And yeah, they do help because like what would happen was like, yeah, it sucks and it's cold. I felt like I got some benefit out of it, but like we talked earlier, I don't know if it's psychological or if it's real, but I kind of don't care.

Liz D'Ginto (1:08:01)
Yeah,

it works, works. Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:08:01)
Because at the end of the day, like, feel like it works and like, whether it's

whether it's psychosomatic or if it's real, like, does it, does it matter if it helps? ⁓ but yeah, like I'll get in and the limiting factor for me is like how long I can tolerate my feet being frozen. And like, for me, like when my feet get really cold, they feel like they're on fire.

Liz D'Ginto (1:08:23)
Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (1:08:25)
to Liz's point, I think I think she raised the fact that what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another. And I think that's what's what's really important to note is the fact that what works for you if it's if it's cupping or ice baths, then you know, then that's what then that's what you go with. Yeah. ⁓

Jill Bartholomew (1:08:30)
Yeah.

Apparently it's all the above. Although I'm

glad that she's not as big a fan of Graston as my last PT was, because as much as I loved the guy, know, was awesome. But my right IT band, like that whole length from hip to knee, was in this constant state of black and blue. It was always bruised.

Liz D'Ginto (1:08:48)
That was nice to you today.

Troy Theodosiou (1:09:03)
I'm sure.

Liz D'Ginto (1:09:07)
I think also not to get away from the recovery, but just the big part in general of like injury prevention is really that strength training component. So.

All the gadgets and everything with recovery is good, but feel like a lot of times people are looking for that quick fix to kind of get rid of their pain. And a lot of times it stems from a lack of strength or structural deficit, something joint related. And if you don't fix that, no matter what, like recovery modality you use, it's never gonna go away.

Troy Theodosiou (1:09:17)
was that.

Jill Bartholomew (1:09:34)
Mm-hmm.

So do you think, ⁓ so I have two great loves in my sporting life, right? There's the triathlon stuff, which we tend to talk about the most, but at my heart, I am a run Disney runner and I've been doing princess runs for longer than I've been doing triathlons. you, a lot of those are like,

Liz D'Ginto (1:09:49)
Yes.

Jill Bartholomew (1:09:58)
what they call challenge runs, right? So in a single three or four day span, there will be multiple runs of ascending distances, right? So a lot of them will be like 5K one day, then 10K on the next day, and then a half marathon on the next day. One of them then adds a full marathon.

Liz D'Ginto (1:10:00)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:10:22)
the one that we just did at springtime, it's, hotter. So it's a five K 10 K 10 miler. Do you think that for folks who are training for those kinds of, of events, and it's not just Disney that does them, right? Like I know Philadelphia at their marathon weekend, they do an eight K and then they, have a half marathon

Liz D'Ginto (1:10:29)
Good.

Mm-hmm.

Jill Bartholomew (1:10:46)
the same day.

And then a full marathon the next day. you'll run the half marathon and then the AK and that I think is eight. And then the following day you'll run the full. Uh, so for folks doing these kinds of like multi-day, multi-distance, like, you know, they, they really are ultra endurance events. Um,

Liz D'Ginto (1:11:06)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:11:07)
do you think that like the strength training and the recovery that they need to do, you know, to prepare for those events is different from.

your normal training for a single distance event.

Liz D'Ginto (1:11:22)
I would say probably different in terms of like a higher intensity. So for any runner, it's like endurance training is going to be super important. Um, any distance runner, but if you're running that many long distance events, like that many days in a row.

Jill Bartholomew (1:11:29)
Mm-hmm.

Liz D'Ginto (1:11:42)
I feel like your intensity of training and recovery is just a level higher than if you're just doing one racer. One. Yeah. Yeah. Very significant. Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (1:11:49)
And also more important, right, Liz? Like to your point, like

Jill Bartholomew (1:11:53)
Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (1:11:54)
if you're just doing a single discipline or a single day event, like it's important. But what Liz is saying is like, if you're doing like a combination or multiple events, like it's even more important. It's paramount in fact.

Liz D'Ginto (1:11:57)
Yeah.

Right.

Yeah. Especially the recovery in that scenario. Like each of those days, making sure that you're truly when you're once you're done the race, like you're focusing on recovering and preparing for the next day. ⁓

Jill Bartholomew (1:12:07)
Yeah, I...

Yeah,

yeah, like these, ⁓ these multi distance events after the last race, you can tell who didn't train for, for the recovery aspects. Cause you'll, you'll see these, ⁓ you'll see the posts on online Facebook or whatever social media that are like, how long is it before it stops hurting? And it's like, dear, it's been a week. It shouldn't still hurt.

Troy Theodosiou (1:12:31)
Mm-hmm.

Liz D'Ginto (1:12:32)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (1:12:46)
Yeah,

actually, it's funny you say that, Joe, because I actually saw a post from Ben Canoe, and he had a sprint finish at Oceanside. And, and he actually mentioned he spoke about the fact that that sprint finish, the impact that had on his recovery, like the output of you you finish or you, you, you envisage finishing a certain way, and then all of a sudden, you're doing a sprint.

Jill Bartholomew (1:12:55)
Mm-hmm.

I bet.

Mm-hmm.

Troy Theodosiou (1:13:15)
at the end of a 70.3 triathlon.

Jill Bartholomew (1:13:17)
Yeah. And like, like in that

case, right. Like that, that sprint was what a quarter mile, half a mile, you know, so at that point you've already gone 65 to 70 miles. Sorry. Six 69 to 70 miles. Right. And your body is at that point, super fatigued and.

Liz D'Ginto (1:13:24)
Cheers.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Troy Theodosiou (1:13:32)
Correct.

Yeah.

Liz D'Ginto (1:13:38)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:13:39)
you know, now you're asking for it to pull out all the stops to, to, you know, be a track runner for the next, you know, 10th of a mile or two 10th and like, you know, and running, you know, there, it is a thing, right? Like kick it at the end. ⁓ but it means something different, you know, when you're like

Troy Theodosiou (1:13:48)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:13:59)
really truly sprinting and kicking it at the end of, of an ultra, right.

Troy Theodosiou (1:14:06)
And to Liz's point, Joel, I think that's where injury becomes a massive concern is when, again, you're doing these combination events or you're doing multi-disciplined events, the body's fatigued. And so your susceptibility to injury is

Jill Bartholomew (1:14:19)
you

Liz D'Ginto (1:14:28)
Andrew, ⁓

Troy Theodosiou (1:14:30)
way more, yes.

Liz D'Ginto (1:14:31)
Significantly hard, yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (1:14:33)
And I think that's also something that we need to be mindful and cognizant of is like, hey, if you're running on an empty

tank or you've done a series of races, like again, listen to your body, know your limitations and be mindful because it doesn't only affect the event or the moment, it affects the recovery and what's to come.

Liz D'Ginto (1:14:47)
Right. Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:14:56)
Yeah. And, and you know, like in that case where

there's, you know, you're a pro athlete and there's like actual dollars on the line, you know, I would imagine that, that the mindset and motivation is different and that you, might be more willing to live with the consequences. ⁓ where like, I have definitely been in that spot where it's like,

You know what? am not going to sprint. You know, that person who just passed me that I'm like annoyed that they just passed me and I really hope they're not in my age group. ⁓ yeah, we're like, no, I'm not going to sprint because if I do, I'm probably going to hurt myself.

Liz D'Ginto (1:15:23)
Okay.

No.

Jill Bartholomew (1:15:41)
Although I will say that 99.9 % or more of my sports injuries happen in training, not in actual race events.

Troy Theodosiou (1:15:52)
That's interesting.

Jill Bartholomew (1:15:53)
I think I can only remember one time where I actually injured myself during a sporting event.

Liz D'Ginto (1:16:03)
Was it like an overuse type injury or you mean you like.

Jill Bartholomew (1:16:05)
It wasn't,

it was an overuse injury. was me doing a race that I probably shouldn't have because I had done an Ironman three days before. And then I went and ran a metric marathon.

Liz D'Ginto (1:16:14)
Mm.

Troy Theodosiou (1:16:15)
Oh, there you go.

Liz D'Ginto (1:16:21)
Nice.

Troy Theodosiou (1:16:22)
Well on that note...

Jill Bartholomew (1:16:23)
Not to get specific, not to get specific.

So Liz, any other things that you want our listeners to ⁓ hear?

Liz D'Ginto (1:16:35)
No, I think you hit a lot of the points. Recovery is super important. Like we just mentioned, strength and resistance training. I didn't really say this, like cross training. So mixing in swimming with, know, trying to strengthen your body in different ways. Basically, yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:16:51)
So you're saying everybody should be triathletes.

So I have heard the, I've heard the, yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (1:16:56)
I think there's a lot of merit to what Liz is saying with regards to cross training. think having a

Liz D'Ginto (1:17:00)
Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (1:17:01)
holistic

approach fundamentally or strength and conditioning, I think that's a huge component. Jill, we speak about a lot of these components of triathlon that are not necessarily categorically a certain discipline, but like nutrition is the fourth discipline of triathlon. And I think strength and conditioning is another discipline that...

Liz D'Ginto (1:17:03)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:17:08)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Liz D'Ginto (1:17:18)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (1:17:23)
cannot be negated irrespective of your sporting code.

Liz D'Ginto (1:17:24)
Yeah. ⁓ yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:17:25)
Yeah. And, and you know, I,

it's the first, it's the first workout that people like drop off the plan when the reality is it should be the last one that you take off. It's like, go, go do that 45 minutes strength session instead of the hour run that you, you had like given the choice, like do the strength amount. ⁓

Liz D'Ginto (1:17:36)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (1:17:37)
wholeheartedly agree with that.

Liz D'Ginto (1:17:42)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Because that's where you start to see, yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (1:17:49)
I think we can all agree on that.

Jill Bartholomew (1:17:51)
But I've also

heard, you know, with more loudly recently is, you know, recover as hard as you train.

Troy Theodosiou (1:17:58)
Well said. That is profound. Well said.

Jill Bartholomew (1:18:01)
Right?

Right. I can't take credit for it, but I like the phrase, so I've been using it.

Liz D'Ginto (1:18:03)
Yeah.

Troy Theodosiou (1:18:09)
that resonates deeply and I think

Liz D'Ginto (1:18:09)
Yeah, yeah,

Troy Theodosiou (1:18:11)
Liz appreciates that.

Liz D'Ginto (1:18:11)
yeah. ⁓ yeah, for sure. You that goes a long way.

Jill Bartholomew (1:18:15)
Yeah, well,

Troy Theodosiou (1:18:15)
Well said.

Jill Bartholomew (1:18:17)
yeah, and it's not just us old farts that break ourselves.

Troy Theodosiou (1:18:20)
No, no, because to be fair, I think when we're

Liz D'Ginto (1:18:20)
Hey, I have my own issues.

Jill Bartholomew (1:18:21)
Thank

Troy Theodosiou (1:18:25)
younger, to your point with regards to your son, we go till we break and somehow we don't forget that, because we're still doing it at an older age. Although we're supposed to be executing a little more wisdom when it comes to our choices. Nice one.

Liz D'Ginto (1:18:30)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:18:35)
Mm.

Liz D'Ginto (1:18:36)
Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:18:42)
Wisdom's overrated.

Troy Theodosiou (1:18:46)
The truth is we shouldn't be waiting for the wheels to fall off before we...

Jill Bartholomew (1:18:50)
No, we shouldn't. And you know, when the average

Liz D'Ginto (1:18:51)
Yeah. Then it's too late. Yeah.

Jill Bartholomew (1:18:53)
person looks at like what we're doing and is like, you better be getting chased by something that's going to eat you. ⁓ yeah, that, that, that means something, right? Like we're, we're, started off this conversation, like we're built differently and like things that, yeah, and this isn't just triathletes, right? It's runners, triathletes, cyclists, swimmers, anybody who's involved in, really endurance sports. Yeah.

when people say that, it's like, okay, well, you your punishment is my support. So like we start off from a different place. So, all right. I think this was a fantastic conversation. ⁓ Liz, thank you so much for joining us today. And

Liz D'Ginto (1:19:41)
Thank you for having me.

Jill Bartholomew (1:19:43)
you know, now I have to think even harder about what like post Texas recovery looks like.

Troy Theodosiou (1:19:48)
Good. Good. Thank you, Liz.

Liz D'Ginto (1:19:49)
I'm be asking you.

Jill Bartholomew (1:19:49)
Right, right. Cause my post-Dopey recovery often looks like

⁓ four park days in one of the parks, but we'll be in Texas. I've never been to Texas. Never been to Texas before. ⁓ I even talked to someone this morning. Yeah, I'm setting up a new website. And so I talked to someone about...

Liz D'Ginto (1:20:02)
You have to have fun though. You have to still have fun.

Jill Bartholomew (1:20:13)
SEO who's based in Texas and she's like, you're going to love it here. It's awesome. So I can't wait. Can't wait to see it. All right. Well, and Troy, thanks again for coming and being part of this. I thought today was great and I hope our listeners think the same.

Liz D'Ginto (1:20:18)
That's great.

Troy Theodosiou (1:20:33)
Yeah, I

have no doubt. I think there were so many learnings, so many lessons, so much insight, Liz. It was phenomenal. And I think it just, it really helps clarify what's important or what should be important. So thank you so much for joining us.

Liz D'Ginto (1:20:48)
Yeah, thank you guys. It's a great conversation.

Jill Bartholomew (1:20:51)
And as always, if you like this, ⁓

episode of this podcast, please like subscribe on your favorite streamer or YouTube. The video, the full video version is posted on YouTube. the streamers, can only see the, you can only hear the audio. ⁓ and thanks again for listening in. This is episode four, ⁓ stay tuned next week for episode five. ⁓ we're hopefully going to be talking to a number of age group triathletes about their, ⁓ experiences coming out of their first full distance Ironman. So that should be really interesting.

So, ⁓ till then.

Troy Theodosiou (1:21:27)
And last but not least, good luck to our Ironman, Jill Bartholomew, this weekend at Ironman Texas. Go Jill!

Jill Bartholomew (1:21:32)
All right.

Liz D'Ginto (1:21:34)
Yay! Go Jill

Jill Bartholomew (1:21:34)
Thank you. Thank you guys.